On the webinar today, the behavioral portfolio, managing portfolios and investor behavior in a complex economy, we. Will discuss an approach to building a portfolio using behavioral finance concepts, the principles and methodology behind the approach, and we'll even talk about a new book exploring the topic. That is with our guest, Felipe Taves, the founder and CEO of Taves Asset Management. Hi, I'm Ben Baskey, Senior Investment Strategist at Orion Wealth Management. And hi, I'm Rusty Vanaman, the Chief Investment Strategist at Orion Wealth Management. And welcome Felipe. Great. To be here. Awesome always to chat with you guys. Indeed, this should be a really fun webinar conversation today. Our agenda today is going to go over a handful of things. First of all, we are going to go over a market backdrop. We're also going to examine why the behavioral portfolio, what is it and why we'll review some of the Tay's investment strategies that will populate the behavioral portfolio. Then of course, we're going to talk about Phil's new book, The Behavioral Portfolio, Managing Portfolios and Investor Behavior and a Complex Economy. But before we reintroduce Phil, why should investors consider a portfolio built off behavioral principles? We not only think it makes sense long term, but also given the current environment. So, Ben, could you walk us through the current market backdrop? Thanks, Rusty. So the market has really been plagued with this theme of overconfidence over bullishness. And we can really see that from the most recent Conference Board survey where over 50% of consumers are saying they're bullish on the stock market over the next 12 months, going back all the way to the beginning of this reading in 1987. This is the highest reading we've had in that time. Also, professional investors are also very, very bullish. So this equity positioning from B of A shows a bullish sentiment has remained strong in the US, especially following the recent Trump victory. It grew to an 11 year high on equity positioning and also the AAII sentiment survey is posting above average bullish readings all the way back to April of this year, which is 30 weeks in a row. If we go to the next slide, we can see that valuations in the US are also very, very high. So apart from this most recent market regime where we've seen a couple of of heights, a couple of peaks in this Cape valuation measure, we're really sitting at the highest valuationssincethe.com bubble. So the Cape ratio is currently reading at a 38. Compare that to a long term average of an 18 anda.com peak of 44. Additionally, the US market is very, very concentrated in some of its top names. So the mag 7 stocks have a higher market cap than every other country in the world except for the entire US. And it's even worth more than the third and 4th largest company countries combined, Japan and India. And then finally, correlations between stocks and bonds have risen. We also, we always see this in heightened inflationary environments where where correlations between stocks and bonds rise. But we can see a new peak here, going all the way back to the late 90s, where stocks and bond correlations are near a recent high for the decade. So I want to do an intro Felipe Tais, and it's a pleasure to introduce someone who was not just a respected thought leader of an industry, but is also a good friend of mine. Felipe is the CEO and Portfolio Manager at Tay's Asset Management, where he leads to charge in crafting innovative tactical investment strategies. In my opinion, what sets Felipe apart is this deep expertise in behavioral finance. This gives him a unique Lance at how investors think, act and sometimes stumble. Insights that he uses to inform his unique investment approach. Beyond his professional achievements, Felipe is someone who truly embodies curiosity and creativity, which you will see come through in his perspective today. This should be a fun and useful webinar and we are lucky to have Felipe share his expertise and engage what promises to be a thought provoking discussion. Felipe, before we get into what is behavioral portfolio, let's first address the why. So welcome back. And why should we consider the behavioral portfolio? Well. So a couple of reasons and in the first reason has to do with just the the history of the markets at at Ascent. You're wonderful. That's probably the best conference I've ever been to. This year we introduced the concept of the Corona bias and the in the corona bias. What that says is that some things historically have happened so long ago that we have lost immunity to them. And you know, so one of those things is multi year declines in the stock market. Unless you were an advisor during the Internet bubble burst, you haven't been a part of something like that. Also multi year declines in the bond market. So these things have been sort of off the radar of advisors and investors right now. But if you do go back, if you look at the history of the way markets treat balanced, even balanced portfolios, you'll find that there are times that are effectively not viable or or not in in durable because of the severity of the declines in the duration of them. So the first is just we need to build portfolios to address all of history, not just the part that we want to look at. The second is that just for advisors that were through the lift through the great financial crisis, you realize that certain markets are unnavigable from an emotional perspective, right? So in the book that we'll talk a little bit about later, I talk about the fact that really the evolution of markets or the way we build portfolios is an historical accident. We had bonds, we had stocks. We said, like, let's put these two things together. And then Jack Bogle went out there and pitched it for the next 30 years, right? But what if we started from scratch and said what makes sense from an investor perspective, both psychologically and from a portfolio perspective? So Felipe, that is awesome. So now we understand why behavioral portfolios, I think this makes a lot of sense particularly given just what Ben talked about, given the current market backdrop. So that's the why tell us what is the behavioral portfolio? OK. So thank you for bringing this slide up. So following on a whether it's just what we were just talking about is which is what if you were a a product design specialist and you were, you were tasked with the question of what would you build and how would portfolios look? And what that wouldn't be is how to get the best return or even how to get the best return given a level of risk. It would be the things that we're listing here. So the first thing you'd want to do if you were building for investors, you want to comprehensively address all tail risks. So you'd want to change the way you think about risk from oh, we want to try to avoid some markets or oh, we'll live through it to like, let's try to bring losses down as little as possible and address those historical events that happened, you know, only once every 25 or so years. You'd want to produce above inflation growth. You'd want to capture gains during rising markets. That's a big one. You know, what you just talked about was. So these are interesting because the setup of where we are right now is fascinating. The stakes are super high on both sides. Number one, you can't afford to not be in this market and and because markets are so high, you can't afford to not address the possibility that it goes down. So, but you have to be both of those things, participating in the rising markets and avoiding down markets. It's not a just not enough to just preserve principle. You want to preserve gains when you make them. So that's the next criterion you want to attempt to maximize the consistency of your returns. That's the hardest one to do. And here's something guys, the end that with the reaching of 100,000 in Bitcoin is you only want as a parts of your core portfolio, reliable understandable sources of growth or income, not voodoo, it's parts of your portfolio. Voodoo would be a nice ingredient in a portfolio though. Well, Speaking of of unique. So obviously I'm really intrigued by this concept of the behavioral portfolio, but I I already know a top question many advisors and investors would have like, but during times of market stress, why doesn't just the classic 6040 portfolio work? If you got the 6040 portfolio and it's classic for a reason, can't you just rebalance it? Why does it fail during times of market stress? Well, to a certain extent. So there there are times, as we saw in 2022, when both stocks and bonds move down together. Actually, here's an interesting stat in the book. I discovered something about fixed income because everyone says there's no way to predict what real returns in fixed income are going to be. But I found that there is a very high correlation between your starting yield and what your real returns were over the next 30 years. So if you're starting yields of the 10 year extremely low, then over 30 years, your real returns could be negative, right? And, and so, so where were we at the end of 2021? We were at historic lows in the 10 year of below 2%. We had never seen that, you know, in U.S. history and and we were at a point when valuations in stocks were very high, maybe not as high as they are right now, but very high. So that's a moment in time when bonds have very low projected returns and stocks have very low projected returns. But the other thing too rusty, if you look historically, one of the one of the things that can really hurt is if you do have these multi year brutal bear markets in stocks like we saw in the Great Depression. And you, you'll see some years during the Great Depression as that played out when bonds actually did OK. And and another thing that helped at that point was that you had some disinflation. So that helped if you maybe needed to have less income during this period of disinflation, but that that bonds weren't enough. Stock losses were so severe that a person with a balanced portfolio taking distributions would have run out of money completely. So what it means is that just that combination, sometimes these things correlate down together, but other times bonds aren't enough to bolster some of these brutal stock market declines. Now, as we're talking about, you know, some of these moments in time that can be really emotional for investors, how does the behavioral portfolio really help? The emotional aspect for investors of staying invested, staying properly allocated to really weather any of these extended market downturns. So then I'm going to give you 2 kind two kinds of answers. And the first answer is one that we would think about like the financial crisis, like what if you had fully half of your equities in a head equity approach and you were had a balanced model, so 6040 stocks and bonds and the hedged equity piece largely was successful at uncorrelating from negative market activity. What that would mean is that only 30% of your of your overall portfolio was fully exposed to market downturns. So a 50% decline for 30% would represent 15%. If you happen at that moment to have bonds appreciating as they did at certain points during the financial crisis, that would mean that your losses in your overall portfolio are what I think most advisors would agree well within the range of losses that investors can tolerate and might accept expect. But here's a big one. As an advisor, you're going through this financial crisis and it was brutal to think about all the psychological things like wow, your our money markets might stop working, you know, laymen going bankrupt, unemployment surging to 10%. Like negative, negative, negative. To be able to point to two parts of your portfolio, maybe an adaptive fixed income part and a hedged equity part that are doing OK and might even benefit from the decline could be a huge asset for investors to hear. But there's another part of it that we wouldn't think about. And so that part is that if you go back in time to what I was talking about earlier periods of time when you go through, you know in the Great Depression, we have 86% losses over almost three years. Then we had a decent bull market for a couple of years and then we had another five year bear market. When you when you look at that and try to visualize that and then the book I take take advisors and investors through a visualization of how that would have felt to live through. What you find is that way beyond just keeping investors in at the bottom. If investors would go through that kind of a downturn, they wouldn't be stock market investors at the end of it, right? It would complete, it would be so bad that it would change the perspective of investors to think about stocks as something that you just didn't invest in, right. So you get into these absolutely brutal investor behavioral terrains that where this this strategy, you know, if you had an hedged equity strategy, it had fewer losses during the downturn, then it actually captured something during the rebound during that 2 1/2 year rebound and was actually profitable would be potentially, you know, game changing for the advisors and their practices. Felipe, when you talk about the behavioral portfolio with financial advisors, what are some of the feedback you get? What are some of the questions they ask? What are they like? What are some of the what are the things they push back on? You know, we honestly, Russell, we don't get much push back. We really don't. I think that, you know, the the key is how you're executing on it. And so one of the things that we see a lot is that people adopt strategies that that sound a little hedged equity. You know, the things I can think of there are maybe call writing strategies or maybe rotation strategies that go to different parts of the market. So and and then if if you're not super explicit about what you're trying to get in one of those strategies, then you can do it the wrong way. I think that they're, you know, really we don't have much resistance. I think that it almost, almost quite the opposite. What we've seen somewhat is that advisors seize upon this as a way to differentiate themselves from the vast majority of the way most of people invest. So if you have a Vanguard investor come in and you point out the fact that these kinds of contingencies were for the Great Depression or bond market losses aren't addressed, you just positioned yourself really competitively very favorably. Write down a couple of these slices a little bit. So first of all, let's talk about hedge equities. And it kind of goes back to your point about fixed income and about starting points matter. So the beginning yield is really important to figure out what returns will be in fixed income. But think about the stock market. Starting points matter there as well. Usually the best returns come out when valuations are low. The worst returns come out when valuations are high. So walk us through the hedge equities a bit. Yeah. So that's what's so interesting and and really you know, I will say that there's something different happening right now than than what I have experienced when we talked to advisors in the past. I think that you know go back to because we were, I was executing on hedged equity strategies all the way back pre pre Internet bubble burst. And despite how shockingly young I look, you know, I was doing it then, and there was a lot of resistance then to the idea that you would do something other than just be in the stock market. I think the climate has changed. And I think there's more of a willingness to adopt things that can hedge against losses. And instead of people resisting this, they seem to be embracing it. There seems to be an understanding that, yeah, you're right, we are very highly valued. We've had 20% plus growth in the S&P 500. Let's do this now. And in fact, just post election, we've had, you know, right now we have people executing on on trading in the hedged equity because they're thinking about the risks coming into 2025. So, but the key is you know, there are a couple of key things you want to look for in your hedged equity approach. You want as much as possible full market up capture possibilities. You want a full hedge. Would you Rusty Ben, would you insure the 1st 10% of losses for fire insurance in your house? No, that's what buffers do. So you want to try to make sure that you create a strategy that instead of gets weaker as the markets fall, potentially has more robust loss as markets fall and is there to really go into like risk off mode and uncorrelate mode. As you see the, you know, the key of these crises pick up, but you also want to try to look for strategies that have relatively reliable up capture. So the more reliability you can have with up capture, the less investor retention you can get along the way. So, so if you have a, you know, half of your equities in conventional equities, half of it in hedged equity, if you're hedged equity gets 70% up capture capture on average, that means you're there with 85% up capture of your overall portfolio. Most advisors and investors find that perfectly. Acceptable. So as we talk about kind of manage risk blueprint, which is, you know, kind of the the core strategy that Taves, how is that approach really implemented in this strategy? Specifically, what kind of asset classes are you using? What's your your kind of trading like? How do you how do you implement that? Sure. So Sarah, the longest time all of our strategies were trend following, algorithm driven and would be either fully in or out of the market. We had what we found to be very satisfying results especially during crisis markets like the financial crisis and strong rallying markets. The downside with those strategies tended to be that sometimes the markets would be up 20 and we would be up five and that ended up creating investor retention issues for advisors. With our new hedged equity approach, the majority of it is driven by option hedging. So 80% of the portfolio is in an ETF that we manage that is just fully allocated the S&P 500 and we buy a two year leap to your put out there for the full notional value and that's the primary source of. Attempted loss avoidance for the strategy, as the market moves down more, the more appreciation you potentially will get with that put contract and then you know if you get into crisis mode, you can really see that move higher. We pay for that, the cost of that or the attempt to pay for a portion of the cost of that put by selling some calls every month that we roll and we sell some put spreads below the market and and you know, we can pay for a majority of the cost of that. But by doing that. So that answers the question, what's your source of attempted loss avoidance? How do you pay for the cost of that? And then super critical, the final component with that option hedge portion of the strategy is that all of that options overlay is dynamically managed. So if the market moves up mid year, we'll roll this strike up. So attempt to to protect that gain and that was one of the core objectives that we had. We just talked about other behavioral portfolio. Alternatively, if the market moves down a bunch and and we did this in our SM as during the pandemic once during 2022, we'll roll that put down and monetize it. So it's really just a way for an advisor to just put it in their portfolio and forget about it and attempt to have meaningful loss of avoidance that doesn't have its own tail risk if the markets do certain things, but just be there to attempt to have relatively reliable up capture along the way. So let's jump into kind of tactical fixed income suite off of that. So, so we have the our hedged equity piece. We talked about kind of three components of the behavioral portfolio. So adaptive fixed income is is a big piece of this. We talked about, you know, starting yields can lead to lower returns. How's Taves kind of thinking about maybe in that environment where you have lower yields and you're still trying to have a meaningful fixed income allocation or just ongoing from a protection standpoint and that correlation standpoint, how is Tay's thinking about that adaptive fixed income piece? So we are super been, we are super vulnerable to the Corona bias when it comes to fixed income because all we all we can really understand beyond 2022 is the 40 year really impressive return. For bonds even after you take into account inflation. So this was a bull market in bonds that has like molded how we think about fixed income as a always stable except for 2022 always reliable way to bolster against stock market returns. So you have to go back in time prior to that bull market to look at what can happen to fixed income. And as we saw the 10 year go in 1945 from the low of around 2% up to 14% in 19. In early 1980, bonds entered into a 36 year bear market. So that was a period of time when they produced basically add inflation or below inflation returns even before advisor fees kicked in. And the the way to understand where we are right now, you have to you can't have this conversation without bringing in government debt and global debt. So the where where we are now in terms of debt to GDP looks just like where we were back then post World War, 200% of GDP. And what that does is it creates a lack of, you know, ability to address crises fiscally because we just don't have the the gas in the in the tank to be able to put money into the economy. And we're at risk of going from 100% debt to GDP higher. What does that mean? What that means is that all of these things come back to inflation risks. And so that corona bias is telling us there's no way we're going to see bonds move down again. We're going to be on the case of Fed lowering. But you know, look, with the election of Trump and the optimism we're seeing right now, there are these risks that we all know are out there. And one of the biggest one is, is tariffs. You'll also have open conversation about ability to like influence the Fed, like in Turkey, you know, where where they now have interest rates north of 20%. So you got to understand that going back to addressing contingencies comprehensively, one of those contingencies is that we see inflation pick up, tick up. When you say interest rates tick up, probably a lower probability of that. We don't know that it's going to happen, but what if it does? And what if that happens at the same time that we see stocks move lower because the look, a 10 year mortgage rate is not going to be great for the S&P 500. So being adaptive is key. How does that work? Well, in our opinion, you want to be in really three parts of the market. You want to be in T-bills. That's where you want to be. If inflation is moving higher and interest rates are moving higher because although you may not be getting a lot of above inflation growth, you can be avoiding principal losses. The other place you might want to be is investment grade bonds. You know, if we see the Fed lower aggressively and we don't see inflation that could appreciate a lot or in an environment like we have right now, you want to be in high yield bonds because you get a, you know, a yield advantage plus you might get some appreciation as stock markets move higher. So what that does then is it attempts to not necessarily produce a ton of it of inflation growth, but address this possibility of negative traction for bonds so that you can at least bolster that part of the portfolio at a time when other parts of the portfolio might be in duress, Right, Right. So that's like, so we just talked about kind of the hedged equity piece, we talked about tactical, you know, adaptable fixed income. So as we kind of bring all of these together kind of before we show some of our portfolio examples, you know, what do you see as the future of this behavioral portfolio kind of kind of bringing that all together? So we are super excited about the launch of the book. And I want to just say that, you know, I just want to apologize formally to my staff who listened to me talking about the book that I was writing for literally 20 years. So they would hear me talk about writing a book and they would be like their eyes would glaze over. But it's actually listed on Amazon now. So it's it's happening. We're hoping to have copies. I think we will at Ascent. We want to change the conversation about how people think about building portfolios. We want to break down the iron gates of efficient markets, hypothesis directionality and benchmark centricity for how to build portfolios and create this new sort of investor centric, investor focused approach to how to build portfolios. And, and what I, what I do in the book is I don't just say our way is the only way. I lay out this quantitative framework. I lay out some of the objectives. Well, that's one of the, you know, core criteria to include in doing that. And then other people will innovate around how to execute, right. But I want to really change the conversation about how we think about portfolios. We have grand ambitions. Will those be met? I don't know, but we really want to get a lot of traction with that. Well, Felipe, Ben and I have a bunch of questions on the book, but before we get there, next we're going to go into the Orion Wealth Management Investment Strategy kitchen here and look at some portfolio recipes. So, Ben, do you want to walk us through some of these behavioral portfolio recipes your team whipped up in the kitchen? Absolutely. So this is really, you know, we brought this back to that first pie chart that we looked at, which we've referenced a couple times here where we have some market participation, you know your conventional equities that we then have hedged equities and we have this adaptable fixed income piece. And So what we're really relying on here is we're relying on Taved strategies for the hedged equity and the adaptable fixed income. And then we're using the Brinker disciplined equity SMA of global equities to have kind of our core global equity conventional exposure, so. We we've. Built options for all five of the OPS risk benchmarks going from aggressive growth down to conservative income. And you're going to see kind of a few different combinations of the of these different strategies. So in your most aggressive, you're really looking for a lot of that conventional equity market participation. You can weather those draw downs, but we're still going to keep, you know, 20% hedged to to protect and we're going to keep 10% and that adaptable fixed income to pick up other areas of the market. But most of that's really going to be focused on conventional equities. And then as you roll down, you know, the risk glide path, we're kind of mixing them up a little bit more. So as you move down, you hedge out a little bit more of your equity exposure, you're getting a little bit more fixed income exposure. And then as you get all the way down to conservative income, we're really relying on that adaptable fixed income to not just protect your portfolio and and keep you away from, from equity losses, but we're also utilizing that, that taste high income strategy to pick up those other parts of the market that that Felipe discussed of high yield bonds, corporate bonds and treasuries. So that's our take on kind of building out a portfolio, portfolio recipes, as we say on the OPS platform with that framework in mind. Yeah, but you know, I think an important point, this is just a framework. It's like a recipe. So everybody went to get into their own respective kitchens, working with their clients, their investors. They can tweak it. Just like Flea Pay said, everybody will probably adapt in their own little way. But you know what, it's not time to talk about the book, you know? So that stuff was fun we talked about, but this is going to be really fun as well. So you've been talking about it for 20 years. So when is it? It's scheduled to come out in March, yes. And are there going to be parties? I mean, what what's going to happen? I mean celebration parades. There will be parties, so we're planning on some big events here in New York City. So those of you that are Taved, you know, adherence, please get in touch with us already because we're going to be doing that. You know, Rusty Ben, like I'm just going to say that if anyone is, you know, for those of you listening, can you just go to Amazon now and do a pre-order? I have this imagination that no one is pre-ordered. I don't you don't have any information about pre-orders because you can get the Kindle version, you can get the hard copy version. Please do it so at least one did it and then e-mail us and say we did it. We pre-ordered fit eBay so yeah. Do you see those numbers? I swear I pre-ordered already. You didn't. You haven't seen those numbers yet. You haven't seen No. I don't know how we see anything. Well, we have 5 questions about the book. You're asking questions from us. I'm ready. So first of all, what inspired you to write the book? So it it's hard to be persuasive about something so fundamental as what really core objectives you should have when you're building a portfolio, especially when you're coming up against, as I was referring to earlier, some of the greatest minds in the history of investing. So, you know, Gene Fama has an oppressive amount of data that supports the idea that that the best way to invest is to just put your money into a passive index and leave it all out even. And then what, and what a lot of efficient markets adherents will say is that even if you do think you're overvalued, even if you do know that stocks are currently mispriced, there's nothing you can do about it, right? So what, what is required, what, what is required is a long form dissertation on thinking about building portfolios. And I would, I here's what I hope and I believe is that if you read the first half of this book, because what I do is I look at the history of stocks and I look at the fundamentals and I get, I, I deconstruct thinking about stock market investing and I do the same thing for bond market investing. And I believe you can't get through the first half of that book and still be a 6040 investor. I believe that's true. And so, but that's necessary because before you can present a solution to a problem, you need to have people understand what the problem is. And that's a long form execution of that. And then the other part of it is that, look, we've built what we feel are amazing tools that, you know, I talked about the, the Morningstar Mind the Gap study, which shows that investors underperform by like 1.7% the funds that they invest in. What if you could present a, a new framework for communications that can help investors overcome that 1.6%, one point, 7% underperformance gap. Gosh, that's the all in fees for working with investment advisors for their funds. It would be transformational. But here's another thing. What if, what if not only you don't underperform, but you actually outperform because you're tactically rebalancing the portfolio into the things that have just lost the most money at the right time can actually do better than the market. So all that. Now here this question is a bit of maybe a teaser for the audience ahead of, you know, getting their hands on the book. But let's talk about the story about Prudence Sinclair and Cornelius LeBlanc. It really talks about the pitfalls and these advisor client relationships that maybe we we've touched on a bit here today. But what are the lessons that kind of our advisors listening today can learn to prevent what happened in that relationship? Right. So I won't spoiler alert the entire story, but what I will say is that I believe that advisors don't understand what's really going on in terms of who's making decisions. I think that advisors feel like they're the smarty pants, and they are, and that they are guiding what choices investors are making. And that's true, but only up to the point when they reach a breaking point with some parts of their portfolio. That could be something minor like, you know, emerging markets underperform five years in a row. We're sick of it. Get into the S&P 500, get out of that. Or it could be something like selling out at the exact wrong time and basically destroying your future, but through AI. Tell a story about a very astute advisor and a very smart investor and how they ended up making exactly incorrect decisions at the worst possible timing through the fig great financial crisis. And once you come through that, you'll understand that, oh, wait a minute, this is actually how the decision making happens. And I'm actually, maybe I'm as vulnerable as an advisor, as an investor is to making some of these biases. And who the, the, the question I believe I answered through this part of the book is who actually is in charge of making these allocations? And how successful can I really expect to be based on the old way of communicating as investors about managing investor behavioral biases? I may be getting ahead of myself here, but, and this may not be public information yet, but when you sell the movie rights to the book, do we have in mind who the actors will be for units and penalties? You know, I was just, Oh my goodness, I was just watching Inglourious Basterds. Who's the guy that was the British actor in that? Do you remember? Well, there's Christopher Waltz, but he's he's not British. He's. No, it was the British smarty pants who got shot up in the bar down on stairs. Do you remember? He's such a good actor. Oh, maybe we can re edit this and add him back in. But like get him in there for the for Cornelius LeBlanc. And I think I don't know, I can't think lightning. It's even like this. Well, so I think this next question is you've touched upon a little bit of this. I almost feel like this could be a whole different webinar presentation, but what do you think the primary problems are with our current advisory paradigm? I think that one of them is what we talked about, which is that the, the Corona bias, I think that people that that advisors are vulnerable to that and, and it shapes the way they build portfolios and then it creates vulnerability for all of us for some of these major market events downturn. And so you know, well, often when I give presentations, I talk about the heroes narrative of like being Luke Skywalker and saving the world. You know, if, if any of these things do happen, and we hope they don't in terms of true worst case scenarios for markets, what, what you can potentially do is change a vulnerability into a substantial, a situation where you actually do, you know, in a way, become a hero at a time when no one else really is. So it's a huge opportunity for advisors to differentiate themselves in a way that does everything that they would always want to do, which is like support and help all of their investors get through this. And then the other one has to do, it goes back to Prudence and Cornelius, which is that the, the, the current framework for investor communications is a program. It doesn't work. It doesn't help overcome biases. All it does is help bring in business. And so if you really want to change that, you have to think proactively about how you address some of these things so you can get true counter intuitive decision making. So I think this next question actually perfectly pairs off of that last one, right? So the book really emphasizes redefining a risk as the probability of investor success rather than market volatility. So advisor communication, you know, on boarding with clients. How does this perspective on, you know, success versus volatility help transform portfolio construction? Well, so by by adopting the criteria that we talked about and then what I do in the book is I, I have specific ways you measure how you do that when you look at portfolios. And one of the things that we've trademarked that's on the cover of the book is a modified return distribution chart where you try to cut the left tail short, but you try to keep the right tail the same. That's important because it does everything that we talked about, which is like, you know, going back to where we are right now in the markets. You can't afford not to be in the markets and you can't afford not to hedge because of how more how highly valued we are keeping the right tail looking as much like the market as possible, not just going over into absolute no return strategies or something like that. So it, it just changes the way you think about everything. It changes the way you measure it and and it also changes the way that you then evaluate it with investors coming back to, which is not a new thing, looking at it based on how well you're achieving your goals instead of how well you're beating or matching benchmarks. Last question. So how can financial advisors position themselves as behavioral coaches? A lot of them haven't really been doing that. How can they do that moving forward? And I think it comes back to all comes back to the portfolios again. And just because of the pervasiveness of how people are really just invested long only. And now guess what, you know, as evidence that we are not very good at managing biases. Where is everyone going right now? Are they going into value stocks? Are they going into utilities? No, everyone is investing in the things that have gone up the most. In fact, I, you know, one of the things that I think about in terms of, you know, are we overvalued? Is that when I think about the markets right now, I imagine investors just think, well, of course you're going to outperform the S&P 500 because all you need to do is go into NVIDIA, which is the 3X or, or Bitcoin or Apple. It's so easy to just do 20 or 50 or 100% in the markets in any given year and that starts to be a sign that things may be overvalued. So understanding that your key role is being a contrarian, adopting, you know, accept the boom, embrace the boom, but adopting approach that allows you to be counter intuitive is is really just a just a key path in terms of like navigating your way into being a, a behavioral coach. Yeah, good, good wisdom and we're definitely excited for the book. We took the liberty of summarizing the book. I'm not sure if you have any closing comments, but Ben and I took a shot at sort of summarizing it. We obviously did get a sneak peek of it. So we have looked at it. We spent some time with it. So these are some summary of some key points for us. What would you like to add kind of close out on the book summary? So we've, we've done a, a great job of you. Thank you very much for, for putting, you know this together. And so the, the question questions that you asked, I mean, so you know, you know, the, what you put in both here is a great thing to talk about is there's no likelihood of down markets. It's a certainty. And I think that we're in a very risk on environment right now. We just passed the prior peak of, of cryptocurrencies being above 3 trillion. That creates its own systemic risk if we see that continuing to increase. But you know, the, the thing that I would say is I'm going to, I'm going to as a way of thanking you guys is, is I'm going to say that one of the things that is this is not making this up that that is very helpful is a partnership with a platform like Orion where the framing of how you build portfolios is in place and it supports ideas like the behavioral portfolio, right? So if we talk to an RAA that has $2,000,000 and they're contemplating an allocation to our hedged equity approach, guess what size the allocation is going to be, Maybe two, maybe 3%. But if you're on a platform where you talk about a significant allocation to something like just beta or a significant allocation to something like adapt, you know, you know, active or diversifier, it fits perfectly with what we're doing. And I believe it allows advisors to act boldly, to invest boldly, to be able to address and invest according to things like the behavioral portfolio. But I want to say the one thing that I see consistently in Orion Advisors portfolios is sort of beta and then expensive beta instead of beta and hedged equities. So I would encourage advisors to really get granular on the hedged equity question and say, am I really potentially uncorrelated during negative market activity. I think that's the real opportunity for a lot of Orion advisors right now that they could seize upon. Great stuff. I do love that quote. There is no likelihood of down markets or recessions. There is only certainty, which I think is a great quote. And I also like, I mean, one thing we didn't really talk about is that third bullet point. We sort of talked about it, but sort of the importance of pre commitments of sort of talking about these things can happen beforehand. And so I mean, again, the book is loaded with wisdom. It it's it looks like a really enjoyable read as well. So thank you for your time today. Awesome to be here. Well, Felipe, thanks again. This was a lot of great content and thank you for everybody watching this webinar today. If you have any feedback or suggestions for scenarios, please let us know. It's strategist at breakercapital.com or you can reach me at rusty@orion.com. Thanks for watching the Behavioral Portfolio webinar and thank you for your time and trust in Orion Advisor Solutions. _1735542339165