Hello, I am Tim Holland, Chief Investment Officer of Orion OCIO. Welcome to today's Webinar Multimanager approach to managing risk. Hopefully you all can see the slides up on the screen. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us. We hope you find the content of value and we hope that you're all doing doing well. So why talk about risk at the risk of part of me being a bit flip, it seems in our profession it's always a good time to talk about risk that there's always something going on in the world of concern to our clients, Wall Street, the markets generally and the and the economy as well. Just consider today as we sit here going into year end 2023 and what remains on the list of things folks are worried about. We've got a backing up in bond yields. We have China's economy sputtering. We've got the recent U.S. debt downgrade. We've got a banking crisis and we have an election coming up that, you know, I think more than a few Americans are going to be a bit unnerved by. And consider that all of that follows on a 2022 that was exceptionally difficult, right? Last year the S&P 500 sold off about 18% and the Bloomberg aggregate, the fixed income benchmark, sold off about 13%. It was just the fourth time in nearly 100 years where the two major asset classes for most investors, U.S. stocks and US bonds both moved lower. So we're still in this very volatile and settled period and we're coming out of a year which is still fresh in many minds. That was very, very difficult from a return perspective. But you know, again at the risk of being flipped, there's always something to worry about. And and we know that, right. You know, we've got the concerns of the day. We have the concerns of last year. I really like this slide because what it does is it looks at a pretty challenging 10 years, 2009 through 2019 and it looks at what the S&P 500 did, which was about 500% return, all in, which is fantastic coming out of the Great Recession, going into the pandemic. And you had any number of reasons, meaningful reasons to be concerned about the markets and the economy, including two government shutdowns and the first debt downgrade, right. We just had one a couple months ago. The first one was almost 12 years ago. So you know, there are always reasons to be concerned about the state of the world, but it's also important to remind ourselves that the markets and the economy have faced challenges before. And we think it's so important to, to talk about risk management with our clients to to put things in perspective for a couple reasons. One, it will help our clients hopefully keep their focus on their longterm objectives, stay in the market, understand that risk is the price we have to pay for compelling returns. And and by doing all of that, by being prepared for that, you know the odds go up dramatically that our clients can reach their longterm financial objectives. So what we wanted to do today was talk about what we think is a better way to mitigate risk to manage risk and that's a multimanager approach. So I'm doing a lot of the talking and I'm going to stop talking in a minute and and hand the webinar over to two fantastic colleagues and and great friends of mine, Case Eichenberger who's Head of investment Strategy and Brian Story who's Head of destinations portfolios. You know as you may know Destinations is a near 30 year franchise responsible for about $13 billion all in including my family's retirement assets, all of it 100% and was an early adopter of a multi manager approach to portfolio construction. And what we're going to do is spend the next 2530 minutes or so you know checking off a couple really important boxes. One case is going to dig in to why talking about risk framing, risk setting a portfolio relative to the clients risk tolerance is so important in terms of getting that client to where they need to be longterm, keeping them in their seat and and invested and focused on their longterm plans. And then Brian and importantly is going to dig into how Destinations uses this very thoughtful multi manager approach to mitigate risk to to tamp down volatility but also to produce a return stream that helps that client get to where they need to be. And then and then Case and Brian will share some really important updates around destinations, including how this very important franchises position today and some recent changes to what we think is a great franchise that has made that franchise even greater. So I'm going to drive the bus. I'm going to do the best I can in terms of the slide. So I'll stop talking and I'll hand it over to Case. Case, you take it away and you just tell me. All right, thanks for the introduction, Tim. It's always important to hear about, you know, the recent risks of the last couple years, right, and even the last 10 years. I love that chart you just showed on the previous slide of you know just sitting through all those bad things the headlines are going to tell you about you'll get 500% or so obviously in the S&P is the index there. But if you go to the next slide, you know let's just kind of level set and look at a similar chart and say what if you do get shaken out of the market or your clients or or you know your neighbors and and how much can you leave on the table if you will. Because when we think about risk, obviously it's a lot about asset allocation and volatility, but it's also the risk that your clients don't achieve their goals. I mean that's the ultimate risk, right. That's why we are hired, that's why you know, advisors are hired. But we do know that timing the market at the highest level of risk doesn't work. Basically if you take out the next, you know, 10 best days of that chart you were shown previously, the 20 best days, the 40 best days, you end up having your returns by just missing, you know, the 10 best days. If you start to miss some more of those really good days in the market and by the way they happen around the bad days, they cluster together. We do know that you will miss out on some returns. So at the highest level, I think we all know that right. Tactical timing just doesn't work. Going to cash has never been a proven investment philosophy for for managing billions of dollars and it's definitely not what we do here. But that's just one form of risk, you know, moving moving forward, you know, we can talk about on the next slide a little bit. Let's just talk about drawdown risk, right, or think of this, we think of it broadly as concentration risk. If you're in, you know, one stock or one asset class or you know, one country for that matter, no matter where you are, there's a chance you will see a significant drawdown at some point in history, right. We've all seen the charts of Amazon, you know, back in the 2000s. Apple, you get 80 to 90% drawdowns. So we do know that if if you get those really massive drawdowns, you're going to have to wait longer probably to make up those dollars, right, guys? And you're going to need more than a, you know, 100% at some cases. If if you're down 50, you need 100. If you're down more than that, you're you're going to need more. And and and this sounds, you know, very obvious, but let's just put it into practice. Last year was a good example. Facebook, you know a tough, tough market cap stock, big tech stock had a tough year. This year obviously the opposite but but big drawdowns do happen if you're not diversified and that's where we really believe going to the next slide it is the best way to at least set your asset allocation is by diversification. We believe in a three asset class approach of growth stocks, stable stocks and diversifying stocks and it really this you know multi asset I call it wide diversification approach. It's never going to get you the top returns as we show here this classic quilt chart or talent chart, whatever you want to call it. You're never going to be statistically near the top, but it also means that physically you're never going to be near the bottom. It just smooths out that return, right. So asset allocation we believe is the best way for us. Managing money for the last 30 + 30 years, as you mentioned Tim, is the best way. But there is still a risk in this. Even you get folks that tend to look at this and they think they can spot a trend, you know, they think they can time a bottom, right? And they try to move between asset classes and too much of big margins, right. And again, it's it's not something we believe in. We will tilt portfolios here as I talked about here in a second. But still keeping that very well diversified asset allocation approach allows you to stay in the game longer. It allows you to let the magic of compounding really help you get to those retirement goals, which again is, is the ultimate risk out there. Yeah, I know that's a really good point case, right. And just to to call out one example sort of chasing a hot dot or too many eggs in one basket, right. In 2018, muni bonds were the best performing asset class. In 2019 they were the worst positive but but lagging. And then to your point about growth stocks and those are some fantastic world beating companies. I think the NASDAQ was off over 30% last year and that's a really, really hard number for people to take and and not just take but then not take action on and then the NASDAQ flips and has its best first half in 30 years this year. So again owning some of those companies for sure, owning high quality US equities for sure, going all in one asset class, 1 sub asset class, you know the the, the, the, the, the volatility that accompanies that again most likely leads to return streams that unfortunately shakes a client out out of the market of course possible time and then misses that that big bounce back, yeah just churns their stomach, right. It makes them get shaken out at the wrong time. And and you know jumping into the next slide, I think that's where we really want to talk about you know how our approach destinations specifically helps these investors you know achieve their goals. So I I'd love to just kind of take a few minutes on the next couple slides to really kind of go a little higher level. And then Brian is going to go deeper to the title of this presentation which is really the, the, the magic behind the scenes of multimanager approach. But at the highest level these are things you'll see every day as far as asset allocation approaches. And again why diversification, risk management is, is what we believe in and this really shown brightly in in the last couple years, I believe, I believe growth and stable stocks that's going to get you most of the way there, right. But a lot of folks and a lot of other money managers similar to to where where we where you know where we play at do not include diversifying asset classes. They may include a little bit of credit credit stocks here as you see global credit credit bonds, sorry but absolute return. We call them alternatives. Other diversifying asset classes like the sort really aren't included in a lot of portfolios. I think it's because a lot of folks don't really know about them, they don't know how to work them in there and therefore they're kind of scared to put them in there at the wrong time, right. But again we've been using these methodology for the last 2530 years and when a year like last year hits you really need that third leg of the stool to help you out. The most stocks were down what 25% at some point last year, the deepest as you mentioned Tim, NASDAQ down even more bonds long term bonds down probably close to 20%, the AG was down 13, but diversifying asset classes, just look at the you know like the liberal alternative index or something like that, you'll see them down you know less than five or so. Our multi strategy alternative fund was was right in that range. So and Tim if you could move move on to the next slide, I'd love to talk just briefly about you know the asset allocation and the fact that again you know we believe in active management, Brian will talk a lot about it here in a second. We believe in dynamic management between asset classes. You know we are working hard to identify trends within markets, stocks, bonds and diversifying asset classes. And when we identify those we will make small tilts in the portfolio, whether it's briefly overweight risk or underweight risk. We will move maybe a little bit more into U.S. stocks versus international or vice versa, right, depending on you know where the market is and and where our outlook is. But I think some of the really good examples kind of come down to the bottom. Again, a difficult year last year. Let's just talk about a fixed income struggle. Diversifying asset classes helped us out a lot. So we can determine when is the right time to own these and overweight them and when is the right time maybe to own more traditional fixed income with higher coupons. Now you know we remember a couple years ago coupons and and yields and maturities are right around 1%. Nothing to get too excited about, right? But now they're clear over 4 approaching 5 and and it's just a much better time for fixed income. So that is just how we dynamically move between asset classes and tilt the certain directions because again we, we do believe in active management. Yeah, the point I would make sort of back to risk management, a lot of my sort of experience around risk is it's it's risk sort of on an absolute basis what asset classes do, but then also what the client expects from the portfolio. So I think one of the great things about talking about major minor asset classes in terms of growth, stability, diversification is that also helps the end client, the investor understand you know how, how volatile or not those different asset classes will be, right. So you know if if you expect diversifying assets maybe not to produce the greatest rate of return but also to move independent of stocks and bonds, you understand that okay, that's what I'm going to get from that part of the portfolio. And in terms of growth and and say equities in particular and overseas equities, greater rates of return, more volatility, more risk associated with that return. But I think one of the great things you guys do is sort of talk about asset classes from that perspective, which I hope helps our advisor clients sort of explain to their clients, you know how different parts of the portfolio should behave. Because again, I do think a lot of the work around risk and risk management is setting expectations for the client, continuing to communicate around the portfolio, especially during periods of distress and having a good understanding of what we expect the portfolio to do in different parts of the portfolio to do. So I mean that is the thought. That's a great point. I think it kind of leads into the next slide of like just expectations around from a total portfolio mindset, right. Because you know we kind of get so myopically focused on one individual stock or just one individual fund for that matter. And you notice maybe the returns are a little bit different than expectations. But we really think of it thoughtfully from a whole portfolio perspective. You don't want to lose track on on the total portfolio and how everything is connected to work well together. You know, and this this does matter because this is kind of the 4th way you could, you could not get to your retirement goals if you don't have the proper expectations of a model portfolio which we're delivering here with destinations. You know, our job is to keep a risk stability and to make sure that you're never taking on too much risk than what you're comfortable with or you're not taking on enough, right. That's also bad. If you're not taking on enough risk, you know therefore you're going to chase returns at at the wrong time. So you know when we look at this, we can actually quantify this in a way, just look in that chart not to run through it too too closely, but the lower the gap there and the lower the bar chart is really what we're looking for. It's just the deviation around risk of the total portfolio. If you have a high deviation that means your manager or your model is either going overweight risk or underweight risk and they're just not delivering the expectation they should be. So we are looking for a tight gap there if you will and really stable risk portfolio to help minimize any surprises and and really you know help clients get to that long term journey whenever it should be. Yeah and obviously that's destinations moderate on the left to your point that that bars is is pretty close to that that that bottom line which speaks to you know performance relative to expectations, risk relative to expectations against some first rate competitors. So you know that's great stuff for sure. Yeah. And then lastly, moving on to the next slide, it's like you know, risk is very important. It's what we're talking about today. But like you said, you have to still deliver returns. And just because we are very prudent and thoughtful and quantifiable with our risk management techniques and asset allocation doesn't mean we're just taking risk off the table. We are working very hard behind the scenes with Brian and the team to identify active managers that can deliver in certain environments and we've done a good job with that. And you know just just as some of good examples like quarter four of last year, there is the opportunity to to add to risk towards the end of the end of the year. And actually that was that was a really great quarter as we finally saw you know a bottom in the market if you will in October of 2022. So we are going to take advantage of certain opportunities and dislocations when we see them, but still always come back to that risk mindset and to still deliver the best you know risk adjusted returns we can. You know it's all about being prudent in the allocation of risk and you know taking advantage of opportunities that present themselves, but then you know being being more prudent and more cautious when there seem to be fewer opportunities to add return. And and so really just thinking about both lenses of return and risk. But you know just being sure that that we're positioned in a way that we think as you mentioned in the previous slide leads to an overall risk profile over the long term that is aligned with that client risk tolerance that is most likely to keep those clients invested for the long term. All right. So I think that's a pretty good intro to your section Brian. So we'll we'll turn it over to to Brian who talk about destinations at a more granular level sort of you know the secret sauce how combining different managers, different strategies, different funds ultimately can can hopefully deliver that return stream with that level risk. Again we keep coming back to the same idea that keeps the client in their respective seat focus on the longterm not getting God forbid sort of shook out of the market at the worst possible time. So, so Brian, I'll keep driving the bus. Hopefully we'll do as good a job as Case did in terms of nudging me forward and and hopefully I won't mess that up, but but over to you sure thing. Thanks Tim. Yeah. I think if we just go to the next slide, it's, it's very important to think about overall portfolio risk. And and when many people think about risk and diversification, it is exactly those items that that case just went through sort of at the broader portfolio level from an asset class diversification. And yeah, it's very critical to us as well. But I think one thing that's underappreciated, 1 aspect of portfolio management and portfolio construction that is very underappreciated is thinking about risk, thinking about diversification within asset classes as well. And we think this is 1 area in which many folks get active management wrong. And why oftentimes or sometimes investors express dissatisfaction with active management is because we know a couple things about active management. We know that, you know, there's lots of different ways to implement portfolio solutions, a lot of managers doing things different ways, a lot of successful managers. It's a lot of ways to to win, but there's also a lot of ways to lose and do things poorly. And so even the most successful managers over a long term period tend to have you know short to intermediate term periods in which they underperform and that the stress of that and sort of the behavioral and emotional impact that that has tends to as as case was talking about earlier that can be another way that investors can get shaken out at exactly the wrong time. I mean academic research, you know, points to, you know, you know if we're looking at a subset of managers that outperform over a long period of time, over half of them over a 10 year period will have periods in which they underperformed their benchmark and peers by over 20%. And likewise the average, you know, outperforming manager, those that have longterm successful track records, they will have you know, a drawdown period in which they underperform benchmark and peers for nearly two years. And so think about as an investor, you have a manager that's underperforming for two years relative to peers, they're out, they're underperforming by more than 20%. Perhaps that can lead folks even those that have pretty pretty solid intestinal fortitude to be shaken out and that tends to be at exactly the wrong time to to leave if you have a solid manager with a proven team, proven process and a a likelihood of outperforming going forward. And so when we look at that we think you know we think that the approach that we take to active management both manages risk at that level provides a more provides a more consistent return profile over time that lessens the likelihood that investors will get shaken out at exactly the wrong time but also gives us the opportunity to participate fully in the the alpha potential of those high performing managers. And so if you move move to the next slide Tim, I think you know kind of circling back to the winning by not losing concept that that you've talked about. And we think that it's critical that we have a process in place that enables us to benefit from what we believe to be significant potential from active management. But to do so in a way that minimizes the downside when inevitably we do get a call wrong. And so you know we're you know some level risk management is about emotional intelligence and that the humility to admit and or acknowledge that we're not going to get everything right all the time whether it's in our, you know despite having a you know robust and thoughtful process, you know highly skilled and experienced team, whether it's our asset allocation decisions, whether it's our manager selection decisions. We're not going to bat 1000 and no one will. And so you know as I said really risk management is about putting process and structure in place that allows us to you know seek out performance, seek you know compelling returns but to have guardrails in place that you know when things don't exactly go as intended we limit that downside. And so I think that the key thing when you think about a multi manager implementation that you know we believe very strongly and we have high conviction and this as almost I think someone said earlier that the secret sauce in the portfolio construction is that you know you hear sort of the proverbial free lunch of diversification as a term that gets bandied about. And and definitely again from an asset allocation standpoint, we believe that diversification can benefit our portfolios and our clients tremendously. But within a a multi manager implementation and the utilization of active management IT, that's another area in which we think again it's very overlooked. And so just from a conceptual standpoint, you know on the slide here, we have you know 3 hypothetical managers A B&C and each of them you know if we look back over the last five years or look forward, however you want to think about it, have the ability and and in this hypothetical example outperform by 2% per year. You can see the other characteristic from a risk standpoint that each of these managers have is a very high tracking error. And that's that's one thing that we have identified and research has shown that many outperforming managers over the long term, they have higher active share, higher tracking or they tend to have maybe higher conviction portfolios or concentrated portfolios. They're positioned differently than the benchmark intentionally because that's really the way that you can outperform if you have those characteristics, but also a solid team behind behind that process and and so we take these three managers, we blend them together really in any, any way. And the beautiful thing about a multi manager implementation is that the excess return or the return potential is unchanged. The alpha potential is not diminished in any way yet. There's a very significant reduction in the risk profile. And so you can see by blending these three together, we maintain the same excess return potential, but the the risk as measured by tracking errors. So risk relative to the benchmark is cut significantly and when you go to the if you want to flip to the next slide Tim you know that was a you know theoretical example but taking it a step further really putting it into practice. This is, this is a scenario that we we encountered recently as we were adding a new sub advisor into the into one of our destinations funds. And you know the the take away here, there's some nice colors, some nice arrows and all, but the take away is in the, the bottom there where we're blending 2 managers together trying to have a balance of risk between them and you can see the return actually was enhanced. Some of that's due to periodic rebalancing and the volatility, the benefit that you can have from higher volatility managers and rebalancing over time. But the return, the excess return was essentially unchanged. But you can see the risk for one for the overall portfolio was definitely less than half of manager A and significantly less than manager B. And then when you look at the right side of the page, you think about compelling returns with significantly less risk and you can you know you can see highlighted there much higher risk adjusted return for that combination of managers and either of the the managers on a standalone basis. So if I can make two quick comments Brian, the first would be I'm, I'm taking credit for the secret sauce comment that was me that was in case earlier. So that's that's me and then for me and we've talked a lot about this over the years and and the way I think about blending together these complementary managers to to Brian's earlier point, you know tracking there is this deviation from the benchmark and you you kind of good managers do that to get that out performance. But that deviation is another way of saying the benchmark did this and maybe they didn't do nearly as well at a particular point in time and that's a volatility that can shake out again and then investor. But if you can take those managers and and blend them together in a way where to Brian to, to his other comments, you don't give up that excess return, but you you shrink that deviation that that that potential for you know wider track and error underperformance, well again you're sort of mitigating volatility. You're keeping the client hopefully in in their seat and and the way I think about this in a very unscientific descriptive manner is for me the whole is worth more than the sum of the parts. The way these sub advisors are blended together, what you get out by doing that is, is worth much more as good as these managers are on their own, again, the whole is is worth more than than the sum of the parts. So I'll go to the next slide. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think great, great comments Tim as always. And I think the thing about it there's there's two aspects to this that all sounds well and good, but I think you know there's there's two aspects that are required in order to in order to achieve those potential outcomes. And so one is you still have to be able to identify high quality outperforming managers and you know you know for for decades now the Brinker has had solid investment team, very skilled, very experienced due diligence team capabilities around that that the network that comes with having all those contacts. And so you know between just the sort of the the embedded qualities and characteristics of the firm as well as a very experienced and and skilled team. We think that we have the ability, we we believe there are active managers that outperform and we definitely believe that we have this the skill set and expertise to identify them. But the other piece is you need to have maybe more quantitative tools that also help you in the portfolio construction process. And so it's important to identify managers that we believe have the ability to outperform, but we need to also identify managers that have complementary approaches. So whether it's style factors, risk, other factor exposures, whether it's they have a fundamental versus a quantitative approach. Look we wanna identify high alpha potential strategies but that they're doing things in different ways and and you know achieving their success through different approaches, different processes and that's kind of where the art and the science come together. We want to marry what we know about them through our deep due diligence with the quantitative metrics and tools that we have at our disposal to see you know have they tended to perform differently in the past. And so when we can look at the historical data, so get you know get conviction that through our understanding and fundamental due diligence we believe that that differentiation is likely to persist in the future. That's when you get the true benefit of of alpha potential diversification that leads to those compelling benefits from a multi manager implementation that we saw just a a slide or two ago. And what we you know it's very important and we do this on a you know ongoing basis daily if not weekly is you know we look at we have underlying holdings data which is a benefit from our sub advised structure. We on a daily basis we have access to all the holdings of all our sub advised strategies. We have risk tools in place that allow us to look at style risk factor risk, you know what kind of concentration risk may exist from any single manager and adjust the portfolio as necessary to try and get a balance of risk among our sub advisors and to minimize any unintended factor or style bets. Because ultimately we want the security selection from our managers to shine through to drive performance and not be outweighed or offset by unintended positioning that that may exist. And really if you we just kind of you know wrap it up a bit. I think what I would like to just kind of leave everyone with before we move into positioning and some of the some of the changes that we've been making within the destinations funds over the last year is you know just to think about you know the the take away of risk as an essential part of the portfolio construction process. But the concept that case mentioned with the asset allocation that I touched upon on the the multi manager implementation that risk management does not mean punting on the ability to deliver compelling returns. And we think that we can have the best of both worlds and it's not a, it's not a pipe dream that by implementing and employing a a thoughtful and data-driven approach to you know dynamic asset allocation. And to similarly on the multi manager implementation to conduct you know fundamental research have a deep understanding of our managers and understanding the risk profile that allows us to pair them together in a way that can retain the return profile, excess return potential but significantly minimize risk. We think that putting that all together Tim's hold is more than the sum of the parts philosophy there. It just allows us to deliver a successful experience for our investors but to do so with a minimum amount of surprises along the way. So case, thank you for your comments and Brian as well and and and as Brian just said, we're going to spend a few minutes talking about positioning, right. Again, we're going into year in 2023, calendar pages flip faster and faster each year and it's been a pretty good year for US. Stocks, bonds, a little little bit of stress lately with yields backing up, the rest of the world not doing as well. And then obviously again lots of things to worry about. They're always things to worry about, again overseas, at least right. You've got China's economy sputtering and some concerns that maybe Europe is weakening from an economic perspective still dealing with inflation. Then here at home, you know the the the Fed meets next month and and you know questions as to whether or not monetary policy is just about done from a sort of tightening perspective, but maybe not considering how strong the economy has been of late, somewhat surprisingly strong. So. So Brian and case, I'll I'll turn it back to you and talk a little bit about at a high level just positioning how you're thinking about the state of the world. And then again as you said some of the changes, improvements, right, you've all made to to again this great franchise. Yeah, I'll jump in here just to talk about some of the, the current positioning and the recent trades we've done. We've gone through two major reallocations this year, March and July I believe. So one was just recent and you might have already read about that in the in the news flash. We always put out right. We always want to be communicative and transparent with what obviously the process behind the scenes is. That's what Brian did a great job of doing, but also talking about her outlook and and writing thoughtfully for for for all of our clients out there. So actually in in the recent July reallocation we came into you know the end of July a little bit overweight risk, we cut risk a little bit down to to neutral Right now I'm not saying I'm drastically overweight, but those little decisions do make a difference within the portfolio and you know fortuitous timing a little bit, but the month of August has been you know a little bit slower I guess we could say you saw at least the 5% dip in the market. So cutting risk has has proven not to be you know a terrible decision at that point. I think a lot of that was built on the fact that valuations, you know, it was a lot of multiple expansion, not necessarily earnings expansion as far as the price movements in stocks and just the extreme bullishness you started to see, see see around global stocks in general right here predominantly in the United States, there's a lot of lot of bullish investor sentiment which has since come down a little bit. So you know we took advantage of that to rebalance the portfolio, reduce equity a little bit, increase international stocks. You know we still feel that there is good attractiveness there. There are higher dividend yields, pretty good momentum at least from developed economies, right emerging struggle as you mentioned Tim, but developed stocks over the last one year really one of the best performing markets developed international stocks and and as we cut risk obviously we have to put that somewhere else increasing core fixed income, stable asset classes, duration maybe a little bit right coupons are a lot higher than what they were. We expect any pull back in the market you may get a little bit of a of a buffer there from from bonds as as well as diversifying asset classes. So you know a lot of those trades from July reinforce the the current positioning. You know as of today neutral risk modestly overweight international stocks neutral on duration. Everybody forgets last year we were very short duration with bond, bond yields a lot higher this year. We believe that they can provide that ballast. When stocks do ultimately fall again which you know some point they will, they have a little bit this year and then always keep keep that alternatives asset class within the portfolio even though we've trimmed it throughout this year and a little bit in in the back half of last year just on the strong run that they've had. No from a bookends perspective, you know you talk about sentiment getting a bit maybe too bullish or optimistic sort of going into the middle part of the year and then you go back to last year when you all sort of leaned into risk in a in a more meaningful way. You know sentiment was on on the floor, so you know that's historically been a pretty good indicator. And then to your other point there, there sure is some great value overseas in in international equity. So, but you know, sentiment can be a really important indicator to watch from a sort of a nearterm perspective for sure, exactly, exactly. Yeah, I mean I think we think even taking it back a little bit farther and and as Tim mentioned you know sort of thinking about both from a portfolio and investment standpoint, but but also some other some areas thinking about over the you know what we've done over the past year. You know from an investment standpoint some of the same thing themes that that case just highlighted. But you know even going back to you know mid 2022, you know as we've seen you know the 10 year the yield on the 10 year treasury was you know sub 1% a couple years ago. Maybe it's peaked maybe not, but it is far you know north of 4.2% as we speak today. You know that that and if you look at things a little bit differently, you know the yield on the just over the past year, the yield on the, you know the core fixed income index that the Bloomberg aggregate bond indexes up over 1%. And so you think about fixed income returns particularly core fixed income yield is a large component of it. And so we just feel that from that stable investments category we're more comfortable getting closer to our neutral baseline. We're still underweight core fixed income, but we've definitely been increasing that allocation. We've been extending our duration as as Kay said think that the the downside for core fixed income is much more truncated than it was a year or two ago. But you know thinking I guess you know again from an investment standpoint but digging more into the sub advisor or active management standpoint. We've added three new sub advisors over the past year. And I think you know calling out each of them was you know kind of geared to this concept that we that I talked about a few minutes ago of of sort of you know getting the best of both worlds. So adding what we believe to be very high quality managers with you know prospects for very strong returns over time, but finding managers that fit potential gaps in our portfolio whether it was from a style standpoint or a risk factor perspective where we had risk some risk exposure. And so we didn't just close the risk blind to return potential but we actually what we believe added return potential while also addressing risk. And so that you know cause of Causeway and international small cap Lord Abbott on the muni fixed income side and then Loomis sales within our international fund as well in the EMEM space. And then you know some other things that we you know I think behind the scenes we're we're being very active in addressing the expenses of the destinations fund, so tackling feed and renegotiations with all of our sub advisors and having some some success in that regard that will continue. Those conversations will continue over the next quarter or two and will be part of our ongoing process. But also thinking about tax sauce harvesting, we did some proactive tax sauce harvesting just a month or two ago. I realized nearly $100 million in losses that will you know should should offset some of the potential capital gains distributions that that investors will see as we head into year end. And really just I think what might have come across already, but thinking about you know a structure that that leans even more heavily into risk management, risk awareness, but not being risk averse. Yeah, no for and I think one of the comments I would make around sub advisor fees and and and all of that, you know one of the great things about a twelve $13 billion franchise that's almost 30 years old. We've got some great partners that we've worked with for a very long time. And and as things scale, if we can reduce expenses, we're going to reduce expenses because every basis point you save on the cost end of things accrues to the end client and and drives, drives returns in the in the right direction. So I, I think some of the structural changes have been fantastic. So if it's hard with case and and Brian I I will close things out. You know we've got a list of 6 bullet points. Gosh, this text is pretty big and I still need my glasses. That's that's not good. And you've heard all these points I think on over the last 40 minutes or so, but you've got I got a franchise in destinations that's got a 25 plus year track record of of consistent returns, right, of managing risk of mitigating risk. But but to to Brian's comments not giving up on return, right, it's it's about getting the client to where they need to be in the smoothest manner possible. And and you do that through this very thoughtful dynamic approach to asset allocation blending together as case highlighted growth stable and diversifying assets right. Different asset classes do different things and and and when you combine them together in a thoughtful manner, again I'm I'm going back to the holes worth more than the sum of the parts and I was just beating case and Brian up with that term yesterday and we were getting getting ready for this. Again active management, active managers that create value exist and and we've identified them for a very long time but of course they're passive investment solutions that also merit inclusion particularly around maybe more liquid parts of the market and we'll we'll be thoughtful about that. We've been doing due diligence on institutional managers for three decades now. And again by blending together active and passive strategies across major and minor asset classes in a thoughtful manner that the goal is consistent, compelling risk adjusted returns. Because again ultimately if we can't keep the client where they should be, which again should most likely be in that seat, not really worried about their portfolio, not really worried about volatility or the market, they're probably again going to lean the wrong way at the worst possible time and and nobody wants to see that happen. And I think just Destinations as a franchise, again, I'm a meaningful investor and destination myself has really helped our advisor partners solve for that. Again, going on near 30 years. So hopefully you all found the webinar of of value, the content of value. We certainly appreciate you taking the time to join us today. This is the first in a series so. So please keep your eye eye out for the next webinar and destinations. We're going to dig a bit deeper into philosophy and process and construction and again you know how Brian and and the team do what they do and and do it so successfully. And in the meantime, if you have any questions around Destinations, please reach out to your relationship manager, your sales contact and I'm sure they'll be able to help you. But but thank you again for for your time today and we look forward to connecting with you all again soon. _1716245409678