Hello everybody and welcome to our
web cast were excited to bring you
the first our author talk webcast
series of own your story finding
peace and power through memoir.
We are very excited to bring
with you with us today.
Jackson Bird who is the
author of sorted the memoir,
which we're going to be talking about today,
but I want you also to know that
he is along with being a debut
author of popular Youtuber,
a podcaster with a brand new podcast.
As a matter of fact.
And have even delivered a Ted
talk and all of his outreach in
storytelling is really devoted
to opening up opportunities for
conversation and communications.
As a proponent for the LG BT Cube community,
so we're super happy to have you
here before I pass the baton.
I'm just gonna share some of
these housekeeping stopping here.
If you can go back on site so this
web cast is being recorded and you
will receive an email afterwards
so that you can watch it at your
leisure or share it with your
students or share with your friends.
This is a really great opportunity to
kind of have a virtual author visit
talking about the power of storytelling.
We will also be sitting out
of memoir after the webcast,
so don't feel like you need to take
notes will be taking him for you and
will be sharing links to the books
and resources that we talk about
an at the end of the presentation.
We will have a Q&A an we will except
your questions during if you would
like to put them into the chat and
will get to them then at the end.
And also just talking about the
end stick around because we do
have some resources including a
downloadable educators guide for
talking about the book and we have
some other offers that are from JL.
G1.
Last thing I just want to make sure
that you click on the little icon on
your screen that says media viewer or
media player so that you make sure to
be able to see Jackson an interview
in Jackson is Trevor Kettner who is
an editor in our New York office
and super glad to have the vault.
Here and summer.
Feel free to just take it away.
Absolutely just for context.
I am tutorial assistant at Junior
Library Guild and I read for our a
lot of our nonfiction categories
middle grade Anna High School,
including biography high,
which is the newest category,
which is the category we selected.
Jacksons sorted for some really
excited to get to talk today.
So why don't we just kind of dive in?
Yeah, why don't you give
everyone listening?
Kind of a general idea of
what your memoir is about.
'cause there's a lot happening,
and if they haven't read it,
I feel like some context will help.
Before we have our conversation.
Yeah, thank you.
And thank you for having me today and
I guess I can't see any longer here.
But like you know, nice to sort of meet,
talk to all of you watching, yeah,
so I'm Jackson buried as round
and Trevor both said and my book
is a memoir and a little bit of
an educational guide as well.
So I sort of tell my story of.
Figuring out my gender as I grew up,
it follows from literally the
first page library.
Anytime I do readings,
I never like a lot of authors
will be the first chapter.
I'm like that feels too weird.
I'm not reading my birth story
out loud to group of people.
Up until about 28.
Almost 30 now, but then we'll talk
more about the ending of regulator,
but anyways, so the first first
quarter of a century of my life,
and I grew up in Texas in the early 90s,
early 2000s, and so it's sort of about.
Being a queer trans person in a
more conservative area of the
country prior to what is called
the trans tipping points in 2014,
which happened around the time that I was
finally coming out and transitioning.
And In addition to, you know,
figuring out my gender all of those years.
I also played a big part in the
Harry Potter fan community and the
sort of on line communities and
digital storytelling and so that is
sort of included in there as well.
If you're a Harry Potter fan,
you might notice the title is a slight nod.
Harry Potter I I've done a couple of
events with fellow trans author Alex Myers,
who's about a generation older than me.
He was actually the first transferred
openly trans person to attend Harvard,
and when we done events together,
he's talking.
He's described my book as like a
memoir of a trained person coming
out in the age of social media,
and I never described it that way.
I wish I thought of that.
'cause I think that's a good way to
contextualize it within the larger tradition.
Tradition of transmit.
I feel old now in the trans community
and especially like on YouTube
and take back and all that,
but as far as like you know,
printing media goes.
We're just starting to see trans stories
that reflect what it's like to come
out as trans in the social media age.
'cause it's very different
than what came before.
Very active in social media and
I'm always interested when people
who kind of have a following in one
sort of Lane kind of ship playing a
little bit and so we would love to
hear you talk a little bit about.
Why you chose to write your memoir so
you talked about your experience a lot.
Kind of on YouTube and in various
other on various other platforms that
I think that it's just so different
to write a book like what was what
was the impetus for writing the book.
Yeah, well, the book started as a Zine,
so as a transportation there like a number
of different medical procedures that
some of us may or may not go through.
For me it was really important for
me to have top surgery and that's
something that I did several years ago.
Almost five years ago now,
but there there cost prohibitive
procedures and I actually did mine
literally a few months before Obamacare
changed to cover Trans affirming
features in New York state, you know?
So I was paying out of pocket.
It's several $1000 and I ended up
doing a fund raising campaign and I
wanted to give back to people and part
of what I did was like Oh Alright.
Desene like you know,
5 pages about my relationship to my body.
I sat down to start writing an it
just like all came out of me and I
ended up writing a 75 page theme.
Which pretty familiar with seems like
it's not as easy when it's 75 pages.
They're just these really small chapbooks
usually, and I still, you know,
I gave it to people at the scene,
and then I started selling it later,
but I sort of always knew,
like once I had that experience of like,
Oh, I had a lot more to get out.
I had a lot more I wanted to share
in the writing form that I realized.
And so it always knew I was going
to expand it at some point.
It's just a matter of actually doing it.
And then, you know,
finding publisher and all that sort of stuff.
Boy, you know,
both in writing the Zine and the whole
process of expanding it into a book.
Was really interested in the what
I would call slow media inflows,
sort of art and creativity versus.
Content creation online,
which is just like a constant grind of you.
Feel like you need to be consistently
putting things out regularly for me
for a while I was posting a video
every single week and so like for me,
that's still writing.
I write most of my videos so it's
like writing about in an essay aweek,
but there's not as much time to maybe
like do the researcher like think
about how you really feel about living,
reflect, and all that sort of thing.
And when you write a book,
it's kind of nice to get to like take
a deep breath and just sort of really.
In reflect a lot more and figure deep
into some of the thoughts that you
have and get to play with language a
little bit more because I don't usually
while I edit my videos in terms of
adding in the footage I don't have
as much time in my timeline to like
edit the scripts and so getting to
to edit my writing and go through the
editing process several times over
the book was also really refreshing
as compared to rating videos,
right? Interested to hear about, like what?
Who are the different ways in which
you kind of got yourself to write?
We can see on the screen.
Photos like both of you writing
and then also editing the book and
like were there specific ways in
which you can have set yourself up
to do some writing after kind of
decided the book was the thing to do.
I have friends who don't.
Cell phone hot in another room and
turn it off and I have friends who
like Jack at like 5 in the morning.
I mean, I did this morning but I can't get
up that early to write my creative. Yeah, no.
So actually on the screen the photo of me.
That's actually the day before my birthday.
About this time last year I had scheduled
trip with my friends to a cabin in
like rural Maine and it was supposed
to be after my deadline for the phone.
Celebratory and then of course
I didn't hit my deadline.
So you see you in some of the
books I was using for research,
like frantically trying to fit
into the educational side bars
in my book in my friend,
I'm literally sitting around
the campfire while my friends
are chopping block like logs.
Yeah, so that's real real author
life not hitting your deadlines and
then having to write and all kinds
of weird places for the most part.
However,
I did have just one place I was
writing which was just my my set up
my office corner of my bedroom in
my small New York City apartment.
Uhm, it is funny that we're like
we're approaching right now.
Like exactly a year ago from when I
was rewriting the bulk of my manuscript.
And so as the seasons are changing here,
I'm being reminded of like where I was
at when I was writing the book last year,
and in particular I had before it
right before I started writing.
I had just moved into a new
apartment with a patio,
and we've got the patio furniture
and I started gardening out there.
And so I actually wrote a lot of
the book like out on the patio,
and I got sunburned on the top
of my hands a few times.
So that was not great for the most part
I like, I just wrote on my computer,
but I did I think you were mentioning of how,
just inspiration kind of strike anywhere.
I did write a lot on my phone because
so in choosing like writing software,
which I know can be the discussion
with writers of the Microsoft Word,
the biggest thing for me is just having a
software that can sync across all devices
because it's one thing of you know you
might be out and about and have like.
One thought that you're gonna drop
down on your phone or in a notebook,
but once you like,
really get into writing the book,
or maybe into the revision process.
Like I would I wanted access my outline
at all times like my full outline and I
also like would write full passages like
their whole chunks of this book that
were written on my phone on the subway.
And then I could just like sink
them immediately back, yeah?
I often have like completed
whole poems on the train,
'cause it's just like it's there
and you just need to get it down.
That's also New York City.
Life is like artamus we don't have.
We don't have to drive so we can
just sit there for 45 minutes.
In two hours of your day at least.
Like Google Docs,
is only nine really dependent on
like a practical tool for writing,
because you can access things
that are just too long or too
bulky to really look at.
Like in your notes. Yeah,
one thing I might follow up with
just the other picture there.
That's my bed.
Everything my mom got me this sort of.
It's almost like a bed and
breakfast kind of workstation.
Shouldn't even realize how helpful it was.
'cause I think the week it came
was when I got my line at its
back like from the copy editor.
So that really huge pages so
much longer than it even looks
in the picture I had requested.
I wanted like paper instead
of digital ones for me.
It's really helpful when
I'm editing anything.
If I need to like see it in a different form.
So like if I was writing digitally at first,
then for the edit I want it to be in frame
so I can kind of see it and vice versa.
So that's what's going on in that picture.
Was my hand edit I'm doing?
Well, you can also see in that
picture that there's a photo there,
and I feel like there are a
lot of photos in the book,
which is a really interesting
choice when you look kind of
across the history of narratives
of trans people and trans memoirs.
Often photographs or kind
of a touchy subject,
and there a touchy subject
for lots of trans people,
like as a trans person with
a lot of transference.
I know that like people will like whole
new Instagram because they just don't want.
Old photos and I would be really
interested to hear about the decision
to include those in the book,
because there are a lot of them
and they feel like not in like 2,
not like a picture book way,
but like there a real structural
part of how the book work.
Yeah,
it's not like one of those where there's
the insert in the middle of the photos.
I was saying before that it
started as a Zine and so I was.
I was glad that my editor agreed with me and
wanting to really keep and the designer too.
Didn't wonderful job.
Wanted to keep the sort of scrapbook.
On the interior of the book,
the photos are throughout the
book and as well like Journal
entries like handwritten scans,
my Journal entries and stuff,
but I think that's like that's why
I didn't think about it that much.
And like the larger context
of trans people in photos,
which as you mentioned is,
it can be a a loaded thing,
and for me I was like, well,
I put them in the Zine,
which was something that was more going to
friends and fellow people in your community.
So when I put it in the Zine.
It was kind of like whatever,
and then when I turned it
into a book I was like,
well,
I'm just I'm just expanding the scene,
so of course I'll include photos and
add some more and it really wasn't
until I got to the editing process
that I sort of stopped and was like.
Wait a second. do I really want to do that?
Like do I personally feel
comfortable with it?
And also,
what does this mean for
the larger trans community?
And so it is sort of like back up
on like trans people and photos.
Before I think particularly like
more binary trans people or anyone
who is going through a physical
side of transition where they
might look very different than
they did at another point in life.
Sharing those photos of what they look like,
maybe before coming out before transition
can be really sensitive thing and a
lot of people are not OK with it and.
I am always evolving on how
I feel about this personally,
but I do know in the age of social
media there's a lot of particularly
younger trans people who are sharing.
These photos are showing timeline photos,
comparison photos,
kind of before and after and.
That I think can sometimes send a
message that all trans people are
OK with this and that it's OK to
ask someone to see these things,
which is not the case even if
some people are OK with it.
I think you should always defer to
not ask someone for these photos.
And so I had a bit of concern of like
if I'm putting these photos in there.
am I sending that message and.
I talked about this quite a
bit in the introduction,
but you know one thing that I don't think
I actually mentioned in the book is.
One of the reasons it's important
for me to include them is so
I had what is not in a typical
experience as a trans guy,
but he's a typical in the
media representation of trans
men, which is that I super repressed
my trans identity, particularly like
in high school and college, and had a
very like feminine presentation and.
I thought it was important to show that
because when I was figuring out my gender,
I didn't see that representation
anywhere and it made me think
that I couldn't be translate.
It wasn't trans, and so I really,
really wanted other trans people
who might be feeling similarly
to have that representation.
But also for cisgender people,
people who aren't trans to
be able to see that.
That is a narrative for some people too.
I really want to sort of breakdown these
stereotypical monolithic ideas that
we have about trans people sometimes.
Such a vulnerable thing
like it's really easy.
I think to default to like societal
narative surrounding certain identities
because it's much it can be easier,
but like you you take a couple of
really like brave bold motion,
motion poured some real vulnerability
because you have these photos right.
But then you also are pulling
like directly from Journal.
Sometimes I wonder why.
Is there such such powerful moment?
Mostly because you also contextualize them?
Kind of before and after you share them.
But I think it like that.
I'd like to talk more about that,
like the vulnerability in
the way in which like it,
then make some readers maybe,
and this is something I have to think about
when you're writing your own story is.
People feel sort of entitled to.
Maybe some things that are really,
really sensitive,
like I think that often I mean like when
I'm writing about my own experience.
They're gonna tears of things like their
levels of vulnerability and willing to go to.
And it's like giving people
access to like Tier 1.
Sometimes makes them ask
for Tier 2 or tier three,
which I'm not I don't want to write about,
may be interested in hearing about
how you sort of figure it out.
How did navigate that vulnerability?
Still,
can genuinely sharing an authentic
version of your story.
Yeah, but I think people would argue
how vulnerable or authentic I got.
I've read some of the reviews.
I know it is, but no I I am.
I like the way you talked
about those tears you man,
how if you you know maybe you
give people to tears they feel
entitled to three or four because
I think coming from the YouTube
world and having shared my break
publicly for so many so many years,
I think I put those guards up and
I've become very good at being able
to tell like who I share this thing.
It will open up people to
ask about this other thing.
And so I've gotten really good at
sort of navigating how not to do
that in order to protect my own.
Privacy in mental health and
and loved ones in my life and
their privacy and safety as well.
and I almost think that like had I not
had so many years of putting those guards up,
I might have been even more vulnerable in
the texting in the narrative in my book.
As you know I see other memoirs to doing.
I think I just like I've seen
what happens when you do that or
I've had some experiences myself,
and so definitely I like lowered
defenses for this book that I like.
There's things in there much more personal
than I would talk about on Twitter.
But it's still not quite
as vulnerable as I think.
Maybe some other books again,
and so I think that also is part of
why you know I wanted to include
some the Journal entries that
showed the more intense emotions
that I've had in my life and show
some of those personal photos
just to sort of give it a little
bit more of that emotion that I
didn't quite feel I could get to
while still protecting my privacy.
It's an unfortunate balancing act.
So as we were writing,
did you find that there were moments
where you kind of wrote path?
The level that you were comfortable,
comfortable sharing, and then you could
have took that out of the writing.
'cause I've I've done that on
occasion where it's like this
is the thing I'm writing about.
Michael, maybe it's not the
thing I'm writing about.
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah there were.
There were a couple of things that actually
my editor and I ended up cutting out
or legal to once illegal region book.
Serious, because I always think
that I'm like this is what they're
gonna flag and it's never good.
I'm like, Oh I, I dropped a
brand name or something like no,
we don't care about that,
it's more like revealing
details about other people,
people who are not public figures of those
are the kinds of things where it was like,
Oh, I didn't realize I was
implying this about someone,
so I'm going to rewrite this
or cut it out or or change your
name or something like that.
But even yeah, even just things
like personally about me, you know,
once I reread it throughout the
different editing process is being like,
oh, do I really want to share this?
Think about all the people who are going
to read this book, but I don't know.
I think for the most part I got
some good advice from fellow
writers when I was writing it up.
Just sort of like I mean
similar to what you said.
Just write it and then maybe in the
editing process you might cut some
things out and then even if you leave
things in because like maybe it makes
you feel a little bit vulnerable
that you think it's important to the
story and important thing we did.
You kind of forget you put it
in there an like once you do
like public events and stuff.
Like if someone might remind
you in like right?
I put that in there but yeah.
Everything is really important
when you're writing your own story
in your kind of thinking about.
Where you come from and what's happened
to you when you're trying to like?
Get that down into some kind of shape,
whether it's a poem or an essay or a memoir,
or even like a kind of
autobiographical short story.
When you're telling your own story,
you are kind of by necessity
telling other people's stories.
Yeah, that can be really,
really fraud.
Do you have any advice or any experiences
around that that you want to share?
'cause I think it's an important thing
that is often forgotten when you're really
focusing on like I want to tell my story,
and then you kind of go over the toilet.
I have to talk about this person
and this person and that person,
yeah, I mean, I think it's very analogous
to a lot of social media, and you know,
I'm always trying to remind people of like.
Hey, when you're like posting photos
if there's like strangers in there,
you need their permission to post that photo.
You know, like if you're sharing
stories online, remember other people
in your life and how that might
affect their privacy and safety too.
And it's the same thing with writing.
If you are going to be sharing
this story anywhere publicly,
even if it's just like posting it
on your blog, you know it might
not necessarily be publishing it.
You know, maybe do that exercise of writing
what you wanna write for the first draft,
but then if you're gonna share publicly,
you've got to really think about if there are
other people involved at all in the story.
Yeah, I was really concerned about
that when I was first writing it,
and so I would like,
I did research and I talked to other writers
to feel like what what do you do like?
I thought maybe there was
just one standard answering.
Turns out there it's not.
It's just kind of your preference when
it comes with the legal side of things.
There like, there definitely are.
Well,
even even there's a little bit of Gray area,
but basically.
You've got to decide like if
you were going to.
Name people or have any
identifiable details about them.
You kind of need to reach out and
make sure they're gonna be OK with
it and less there a public figure.
With family there like some people
will just write it and then the family
read it when it out and maybe you'll
get some phone calls afterwards.
Anyways,
limit how much other people were
mentioned as much as possible
and in part it was because I I,
I think the experience of figuring out
your gender is a very introspective one,
so there wasn't, you know,
I think like I lived on the surface
without people knowing what was
going inside of me for so long,
but I wanted to focus on what was
going on inside of Maine going
on inside of me in the book.
Be easy that I didn't have to pull
any people that often and it pretty
much just being like my family
and maybe like three friends.
Is it?
I changed some names of other people
and that's about it and with every
single person who is mentioned
by name or identifiable details
I did reach out to them ahead of
time and I spent some passages and
was like Are you cool with this?
The only person a couple people had like.
I don't identify with that word and
it changed 'cause of course I've lost
that transforms and those things
change rapidly sometimes and my
brother also was like this is not
reflective of how I reacted and so I had to.
Rewrite that section.
But what's interesting is like you always
hear. I mean more like celebrity memoirs,
but like the tell all memoir and I,
you know why the generals in the
Kardashian we don't talk anymore like
that kind of thing and for me it's
been so funny as all of my leg cousins
and extended family have read this
book like we're all talking again
like they they've read the book,
they reached out and they've been
like they're telling me things about
them and like we're connecting on
this level we never did before.
So instead of like putting out this
memoir that causes families flights now,
it's like actually.
Deepening our relationships with people
in my life which I never would have expected.
Wasn't trying to do that.
Yeah,
I mean and it's Funny 'cause.
You feel like math,
plenty to deal with like like
all of that emotional weight.
It's funny to deal with, but then also,
when you're telling a story that may be
new to people or is not totally familiar.
Can you do this really well in
the book you balance kind of and
educating people who don't know,
also including your experience in a
way that will hopefully feel resonant.
The people who kind of share that experience.
Can you talk a little bit about
it a little bit about the decision
making that went into kind of like
how much is this going to be with
me and my friends call like trans
101 where it's like you're like
explaining to people terms and kind
of the basics of what it means to
be trans and then also kind of.
Really getting into the meat of what
your story is is about, which is
like about you and your experience.
Yeah, I definitely. I mean,
I think, especially when I
first started writing the Zine,
which was back in 2015, 2016,
the public awareness of.
Flight up to where it is now,
and so when I originally wrote
I was just like why can't tell
my story without a Glossary.
In fact, like when you come out to people,
you gotta educate them on everything
when you go to the doctor,
you have to educate them.
Sometimes, like people don't know like
all the details that are sometimes
required just to understand their story.
Where we're coming from.
Some really gifted writers conclude
that throughout the story,
which I think I did a little bit,
but I wanted to just cover my bases.
You know, I like when everyone is working
off the same definitions of things,
so there's that side of it.
But there is also,
like I am very aware and was very
aware through every process of even
considering publishing this book,
that like.
As far as the trans community goes,
I'm like almost at the top
of Privilege Mountain.
Able bodied like middle class guy and
so I was aware that there's probably
people reading the book who are not
familiar with the trans community.
This could be the first trans like
authored a book they were reading for
Trans story that really engaging with.
I didn't want them to go away
thinking that my story was like the
typical story or the only story,
particularly because I come from
a place of so much privilege.
And so it was really important to me to
include sort all those sidebars that I have.
Their numbers like sort
of sidebars with like.
Sex versus gender or like?
Here's a little bit of trans history
or you know things like that.
But also a ton of resources at the
back because I just want I want this
to be like people starter pack.
Like cool you read this.
Maybe you learned a little bit.
Hopefully you thought it was like moving.
You're funny and now go read
all these other books.
Go watch these documentaries video.
Go volunteer with these organizations.
Exciting place to be for like the
prospect of other projects where
it's like if you feel like you
platelets groundwork with readers,
you can kind of be looking into doing.
Like an expansion of your story, right?
Like I feel I feel like lots of.
When I was teaching raining a lot
of young writers really wanted to
tell their whole story like this is
everything like I want to get it
all done on the page and it's like.
I think it's worth noting and
correct me if you think differently,
but I think it's worth noting that
like telling your story, one isn't.
Tell you like that's untrue
story forever like Yeah,
you don't have this one story.
You have a lot of stories.
And I think.
Then That's really important to know as you
sit down to write because it frees you up.
I think more in fact be like the
thing I'm talking about is this.
But yeah, how do you?
How do you feel about like
now that you've got all this
down and you're looking at it?
Like do you feel like there's more
that you want to say about yourself and
your life in writing or another form?
It's it's really funny that you should
ask that now, in particular because
the paperback is coming out in June,
which means a couple weeks ago,
I finished paperback edits, which are
not always that extensive is usually go.
Maybe correct a couple of factors,
something which I did I gotta Mean
Girls thing wrong and the original
idea you heard about it I didn't.
Yeah, so that corrected now,
but I actually had pretty substantial edits
to a number of passages throughout the book,
mostly on the educational side of things.
So yeah, it was funny.
Like I just re read through the whole book.
and I mean,
I even talk at the quote on the
screen now from the introduction
where I do talk about just exactly
what you were saying is like I could
sit down even this year,
but certainly five years from now and try
to write the exact same chunk of my life.
and I would probably tell it so differently.
Because we as humans are just constantly
changing our perceptions and and how
we engage with the world and I have
always had to think as an artist.
Respecting where I was at when I
made the thing because if you get
so consumed with like trying to do
it perfectly or trying to do it in a
way that will like last forever and
exactly how you feel or something
like you'll never finish it.
Twice perfection, perfectionism.
I have to.
I have to remind myself of that
a lot would be like it's OK,
like this is who I was at that I'm not
sure this is reflective of it's not
just reflective of what's being said
in its also reflective of who I was.
Just as a person then,
yeah.
Telling your story isn't that
you're telling it perfectly
is that you're telling it at
all, right? Yes, absolutely, yeah.
I mean, I think it's so important for
anyone to be telling their story,
like I dealt with a lot of,
you know, kind of getting back
into the privilege thing out,
talking about when I was thinking about
whether I should write this book or not
I was like who needs to hear my voice.
You know, like there,
like there's so many other people
who we need to be hearing from.
Like more diverse voices
which we absolutely do.
But then, at the same time I was like,
OK, well, let's look at like all of
the memoirs that exist out there,
and how many of them are trans
memoirs like there's a lot of trains,
memoirs out there, and in my bubble.
How I was feeling.
But like if you compare it to
all of the memoirs of this like
there's still not enough out there,
and there's especially not enough.
That is like come from big publishers
and being pushed out in the mainstream,
and so you know that's what I
told myself to comfort myself.
But the larger messages just
that everyone's story deserves
to be told and heard.
and I don't think that should stop
anyone from running their story in the
other thing that shouldn't stop people
is feeling like they're not good enough.
They're not good enough writers
and they can't get it done,
or that has to be perfect, just.
You know, just do it and you know,
like.
Get get it out of out there and Flex your
creative muscles and see what happens.
Yeah, I mean like my my students.
The hardest thing to teach them
was that it's OK to write badly.
I had a teacher in underground
who made a point of saying You
have to write badly to right.
Well, he had a very strange theory
that I don't wholly support,
but he was like I think that every
writer has a set number of at
age is that they have to write.
They can get to a good page.
Yeah, and he was like I think
that like for some writers,
it's 4 bad pages for other writers.
It's 25.
The important thing is that
you've written those pages and
you've gotten to the good thing.
Yeah, and sometimes a good thing looks
nothing like what you started out.
Yeah, I think yeah, I agree that you know,
maybe you don't need to look at what is.
My number is 5 pages. I can move on.
And I wanna know the number
yeah yeah Yeah but I think it like knowledge
in those kinds of things is so important.
Like returning to,
talking about the writing process.
I definitely knowledge that in myself,
like when I'm sitting down to write,
I said earlier I was like, Oh,
I would never wake up at 5:00 AM and right.
I do actually tend to write most mornings,
but it's very much just
like I call it journaling.
But it's just like stream of
consciousness leaders in my brain
clearing it out so that I can work
on whatever I'm working on yesterday.
But when I'm starting,
whether I'm writing like an essay
or sometimes a video script or
a speech or something,
I'll start with a similar process,
a little bit more geared towards whatever
it is I'm supposed to be writing, but.
It's still just like a brain
dump string of consciousness and
then from there I might move on,
do a first draft and and I'm also a kind of.
I think you use this word
import modular writer,
so I might write sections and then end up
like moving all around in a different way.
Like I my drafts are totalmente.
They're complete messages and the only
way I'm able to like power through and
right is by reminding myself all the time.
Like OK,
it doesn't have to be good right now.
Just get something out.
It doesn't have to be good like
I think I'm very Griffin door.
Power through with something like.
I don't know if I keep going and something
goodwill come out of this eventually,
right?
That's how I talk sometimes too.
So I'm like if it's not good immediately.
I don't wanna do it, so yeah.
As we've all got things,
we need to work on.
That's maybe one thing to work on.
My brother is like that too,
like he literally thinks before he speaks,
so it takes so long for him to
talk where I'm very much like.
I'm just gonna keep talking
and eventually I'll get there.
But the words are gonna keep coming
out and that's how I, right.
But I think it's you know,
even if maybe that's not exactly
the kind of writer you are.
If you are struggling with perfectionism
being a perfectionist, maybe try it.
Try just a string of consciousness,
consciousness or letting yourself just
keep writing and see what happens,
because editing is beautiful.
Maybe This is why I like editing so much
such an important part of writing.
Is it like sometimes the
heart not not the hardest.
It's a different kind of challenge
to sit down and do the writing.
Something that I've always found
helpful is writing in a different
form than I was intending to,
so it's likely to sit down and write an
essay and like it's just not working.
I can't say what I'm trying to say.
Sometimes I like to start writing a poem,
or I'll start writing a story,
or at once very strangely.
I like started writing a play list.
And I, and maybe that's because I feel
really influenced by other mediums.
And like when I'm writing,
I have music playing or I will like.
Think about stuff that I'm reading like
sometimes I like actually have books open,
like reading at the time and I don't know
if that's part of your process at all.
I'd like some people are like
really like the cloister themselves,
away from stuff.
But like I, I find outside influences really,
really amazing where there any that you had,
what you were drafting,
the book that influenced kind
of how you put it all together.
Or yeah,
definitely. I mean I think I go back and
forth between the cloistering and the like.
I can't usually listen to music
while I write or do other tasks,
but I do listen to a lot of music.
Again, looking in here today,
just like music or podcasts, all the tags.
There's like watching on
the subway all the time.
I some of it was intentional and
some of it is just like the media I
happen to be consuming at the time,
which I think is also very interesting,
especially with books to
think about like wow.
I just happen to be marathoning that TV show.
And can I see it reflected in my writing.
I don't know if I can.
I was just thinking about that,
but one thing that was interesting for me
in particular was because I was reading
through all of my Journal entries ages.
I got reminded of like, particularly
from high school like songs and bands.
You know both that I read in middle
school and I know they don't revisit that.
The main one I remember
was Margaret Peterson.
Hey, taxes series.
She's a middle grade officers.
She writes all so many great books,
but running out of time with
one of my favorite.
Yeah, still like the family that
thinks they live in the 1800s.
Yeah, yeah.
The library and re read that book.
I thought I owned it.
I must've got rid of it some point.
And yeah a lot of bands from high school
I was listening to like Of Montreal.
Oh wow,
I think I actually like.
The first draft of my book I didn't
mention Of Montreal at all and then like
they were mentioned so much in my Journal.
I'm on my like playlist I
made of around my book,
but then I went back and wrote them in
somewhere 'cause like I can't talk about
like there is such a huge influence.
Also like on the gender side of things
and I'm like I've got to include them.
But yeah,
I did have a book playlist as well
that ended up just sort of being
like a lot of the songs that have
been important to me at different
parts of my life and I couldn't
listen to it while I was writing.
But I listened to it almost nonstop,
like when I was not writing during
the many months of writing,
and so that would keep me inspired.
So I think that's kind of what I do is like.
I won't do anything simultaneously
with like actually writing,
but I do need a lot of that stuff to
sort of keep me in the mindset when
I'm still trying to get inspired.
I was preparing to write the book.
I also had a number of books that I read.
I read so those are all my Journal entry.
I just got a big box under my bed Journal.
Yeah I need to. I need to digitize them all.
I'm so scared of my apartment
burning down I just irrationally.
But yeah, I, uh, so I read a couple of
like writing resource books so I doubt.
Yeah, I definitely recommend bird by bird.
I am a lot and also if you know particularly
we're talking about telling your own story.
So one good one is the
situation in the story.
I said no, it's let me get the author here.
So the situation in the story,
the art of personal narrative
by Vivian Gornick.
Yeah, yeah, that's another one
is like kind of a classic,
but it really helps you sort of peace out.
I would say an easy way of Distilling
it is showing rather than telling that's
a good book for helping with that and
then writing the memoir bearing thing.
A really good one that I really
like just to get some that one had
some advice on the like are you
including family members in your book?
Here are some suggestions for some good
practical tips there and I did read a
few memoirs at the start of the process.
But I wanted to read a couple that
I spell it would maybe be similar to
how I wanted to tell my story just to
get an idea of sort of like, you know,
temporal, like I don't know, go
chronologically or go by theme or whatever.
So one of my favourites I read in
preparation was Roxanne Gay's hunger.
Love Roxanne gay and that looks so good and
then I wanted to get a sense of like OK.
How does social media people tell me more?
So I read Tyler Oakley's binge,
which somehow I hadn't read before.
And that's great.
It's so much fun.
And then I had to put a pause on
reading memoirs, especially LGB T ones,
because I was just like I don't want
to accidentally copy someone style or,
like you know,
so like Jacob to be as wonderful.
No more Sissy came out while I was writing.
and I still haven't read it.
I just I can't read it right now.
I'm so sorry.
Yeah,
I mean Oh yeah, and like I it's
interesting is I think it is such
a balancing act when you're when
you're drafting where it's like you
need fresh material like to kind of.
Or I do one night.
I need it because I think it refreshes
how I see like the potential for what
it what is freaking look like or like
how writing can be approached while
you were talking about the craft,
but there was one more that I wanted
to mention that looks like the.
Oddly enough.
I think the reason I became a writer
which was Stephen King's on writing.
I've been meaning to read that forever.
I can't believe I haven't applicable
applicable because the first half of
the book is actually him talking about
growing up and becoming a writer and like.
In the latter half,
it is I think he called the toolbox right.
Like these are things like practical,
part of like wanting to become
a professional writer,
but it's very, very good
on my DVR for sure.
Bubba OK, so as we kind of get to, uh?
They are stopping point for the Q&A.
Wondering if you could talk a little
bit about how you found the ending
for the memoir. Good morning hard.
I think stories are easier sometimes, but
like no more like your life goes on right.
But you continue to live but we
like them or have to in somewhere.
Yeah, was that especially difficult
or strange process for you?
Yeah, well, you know because again
it started as a Zine that I wrote
like two or three years before
and so I had had it up a lot of
life since the ending of the Zine.
So I always knew it was going to
end a little bit later than that.
Visine in did right before I had top surgery,
which was perfect for the theme
of that video I never mentioned,
by the way that lean called.
Free my nipples.
The story of my chest that was one
of the phrasing Vander was like I
don't think we can call it that.
That's OK.
I'm expanding the seed.
I mean All in all that was connected is like,
Oh yeah, it's not going to be just on
the theme about like my body is going to
be more than that and therefore it big
story needs to continue past that point.
So there was a while.
Where is like what is the ending gonna be?
Don't wanna flight tangent,
so my first job out of college
and actually my minor in college
was the documentary filmmaking.
From a documentary filmmaking background,
it's very similar to memoirs.
In some ways. It's nonfiction.
It's about you know,
maybe not your life with the lives of the
subjects and people you're working with,
and it's hard to find a cutoff
time for that too.
When I was working on a documentary
I was I was actually working on Jose.
Antonio Vargas is documented.
And we were still filming like we had
started the offline edit like the rough cut.
But basically the rough draft of
the edited documentary and we
were also still filming things and
it was really hard to decide.
Like when do we cut this off and
especially in documentary editors
are kind of like the writers.
They're like the storytellers.
Could you from all of the stuff available
all the footage hours of footage you decide?
What is the story?
What is the thesis?
What is the through line?
What is the conclusion is the hardest part?
That's why there's so many,
either nonfiction films or documentaries
where they end and then before the credits,
there's all the lights.
And so in this happened because it's
just like so hard to cut it off.
I felt that same pressure with a
memoir of like I'm living my life.
What is a good ending and I finally
it like hit me Oh my 10 year
high school reunion.
Because that had just happened a few
months before I got the book deal and I
was like this seems like a really good.
That's a clear cutoff.
It's sort of like end of my 20s.
Part of how I realized it actually
was by realizing that this book
would be coming out when I was 29,
and I'm like this is like this is
my 30th birthday celebration is
I'm publishing a book of my life,
but then,
but also through through the like
training 30 like crisis and then the 10
year reunion. Realizing that I just.
I personally have felt like in that
this different phase in my life for
so long it was like way down by the
trans stuff and just sort of like
dreaming about these ambitious futures
or like thinking way too much about the past.
and I like in the past year sort of
like mellow down where I'm just like
I'm ready to settle down a little bit.
I've got different priorities in
my life and I'm ready just like
think about the future and like
I don't know not be.
Way down by all these other things
and so that felt like a natural
in between to sort of like.
Close the book on the childhood,
adolescence, and young adulthood.
Yeah, and leave it there.
A film in such an interesting frame
to thinking 'cause I think like.
In looking at how one tells the story
of your life, it can be difficult.
I think to get that distance to be like here.
The shape and like looking at memoirs
when there done really, really well.
You're kind of like the shape is.
It's a book and it just all
together and it's really good.
And it can be difficult.
I think to look into this is what
the person is doing and maybe
some young readers have a like a
better facility with the idea of
like storytelling through film.
Yeah, like there may be ways
in which you could like.
When you're encouraged him to write
me like in the movie of your life
yet, and I mean, I would also say like.
They took a couple like screen
writing courses like you're out
my life and both those away that
they teach sort of storytelling.
And even if you're just looking up
like how to make a good online video,
they pulled from some of the same
like screen writing like different
structures of storytelling.
I think both of those might
make more sense as case studies
for some young writers reboot.
Your favorite like YouTube
videos and figure out like what
is the through line and like.
And I think that might be able to.
Yeah you. I think that helps
me then like through able to
look at those if anything.
Also 'cause they're quicker
exercises by reading a whole book.
I mean like OK of these 400 pages.
Yeah, yeah, because I know storytelling
in some ways when you really,
you know, distill it down is all the
same as like you've got the conflict
that you've got the character,
and that's not unique, just books.
Well, thank you very much
for answering my question.
I think that Rhonda has been
gathering questions from people
who are listening in cool so we can
head into a bit of a Q&A session.
I don't know when.
Do you have? Get to hear you guys
talk so I enjoyed it and I'm hoping
everyone else on the line with us did
as well before I move on to the Q&A,
let me just give you guys a chance
that we'd like to drop some
questions into the chat for us.
And while you're doing that,
I wanted to share with you some of
the resources that are available for
you to download this webcast page so
wanted to make sure that you know that
you can enter to win signed copy of.
I'll be free.
Signed by Jackson,
so we're very grateful for that donation.
We appreciated.
We've also got some sorted bookmark
that you can print out and their
their designed by us, Yeah?
Cool.
We've also got mentioned at the beginning
we got a group reading guide for the book.
It's got a lot of great discussion questions,
gives me a lot of.
Ideal for sharing the the message and
starting conversations with their class.
And also we have here, oh,
we gotta we have a wonderful blog
about the book we one of our Rep is
JLG did a book talk for the other reps
in the company and so you can link
right there to the blog about Jordan.
So that's kind of fun.
I also wanted to let you know that this,
like I said,
was the first in the series next week.
We have Mickey Grimes coming to talk with us.
The same she's gonna share her story
and her thoughts on storytelling
and how powerful it is.
An same with local with free lunch.
He's on the 19th so you can
register for those two webcats
that juniorlibraryguild.com.
Story, or to make it easier,
you can just go to our web page.
We also just wanted to let you know
that we have downloadable images
and information about how GLD is
consistently choosing books like.
Sorted and ordinary hazard can free lunch
that really go on to win a lot of acclaim,
and we're picking at manuscript page,
so we're pretty proud of that track record.
So moving right along to our questions,
let me see what we've got here.
Well, you just sort of talk
touch on this a little bit.
Jackson and I thought it was really
great that you said that writing the
memoir affected your relationship with
your family in such a positive way.
This question is how did writing a
memoir affect your relationships
with family and friends?
And how did you walk that line?
Yeah, I was so nervous about it.
I I you know, I come from a a slightly
waspish family so we don't talk about
things too much and I don't keep up
with my family as much as I should.
Living in New York and they lived in
the South in Texas and New Mexico.
I probably told my mom I think I told her
like when I got the book deal and she
was like you wrote a book and I was like.
I didn't tell my dad feel like the I
needed to get some photos from him
and it was pretty down the line,
but Fortunately they were all super excited.
It was. It was really good.
I should have shared sooner.
I said I did check with him on the
stuff that I mentioned about them,
especially like my mom.
I tell the story of of her pregnancy,
which he actually told to me.
The beginning was different until
I like sat down and kind of didn't
interview with her and she will.
She just gave me only details.
I never knew that was like wait,
this actually fits perfectly like in
the beginning of this whole story,
but when she when she had my brother
she didn't know.
But this is like the 80s so she didn't
know if he was what gender he was
going to be. Your sex I should say.
And the first thing she said after he
was born, which is the cafeteria still open.
What is a science fact?
And I think how that perfect for
the book anyways?
Yeah,
so I,
I got some insight from
them as well eventually.
Yeah, I mean I think it was.
I think the whole process eventually
just made me realize that I I do
need to be closer to my family and I
started like value in keeping in touch
with them more like I think you know,
going through the process of
reflecting back on my life.
But then just also seeing
how everyone has responded.
So excitedly in kindly but also like
sharing a lot about their experiences
and everyone meaning people in my
family like immediate and extended
has just made me be like Oh I've got
these wonderful people in my life and I
need to keep in better touch with them.
I used one thing I will tack on to
the end of that is there's a quote I
do including the book from Jamison
Green that actually I don't remember,
but essentially paraphrasing it massively.
He he's a fellow trans author and
academic and activist who wrote
becoming a visible man.
Which I think is the 2nd edition
is coming out soon,
but that came out in 2004.
But anyway he talks about
how for trans people,
and perhaps to the large extent the
rest of the LG BT Q Plus community.
When you are pretty sure you're gonna
be rejected, whether or not it's true,
you just sort of isolate yourself
from the family.
Is like you self project to
avoid the sting of rejection.
and I did that very much with
coming out with my dad and with
my larger extended family.
and I feel like just now with the
help of family reading this book.
I'm sorry I'm starting to sort of
like mend those divides that I
created more so than they might
have been otherwise honestly.
Yeah.
I love that it opened up conversations
like everything else that you you've
done is opened up conversation,
so I'm glad that your memoir did as well.
OK, here's another one.
What advice can you give as to what's
the best timing for someone to start?
A memoir is particularly again person.
Can you be too old?
Are too young.
I know we talked about
that a little bit, but.
Yeah, I don't think you can be an I.
I think you know if you're on the young side.
Uhm, you can feel a lot of impostor
syndrome thinking that you were too young
to write a memoir and you will face that
criticism from people like that's definitely
a common sentiment people will say.
But don't listen to those people because
no one is too young during a memoir.
Everyone has a story to tell.
The thing that comforted me was
learning the difference between
a memoir and autobiography,
wherein autobiography is just kind of like
it is chronological is your whole life.
There's not really like a.
Through line like the through
line is just that.
It's your life and you're telling everything.
Memoir is really more thematic
if it's taking one larger.
Part of your life and sort of just
telling that story so you know this is
the story of the figuring out my gender.
There is so much that happened in
my life that I'm not sharing and I'm
not trying to pretend and say I know
everything about the world about life
but I'm I do know about my story and
this unique experience that not everyone
goes through and that was that sort of
helps me feel better about writing a memoir.
Bottom line is you don't
need anyone's permission.
You don't even need that definition.
You should just tell your story
'cause it's yours to tell.
But if you need to comfort
yourself in some impostor syndrome,
there's one little.
Nugget for you and also yeah,
of course you can be jeweled with
all your stored either I think.
I in fact I think,
especially in the LG BT Q Plus Community,
we need to hear more of the stories
of our elders and we need to listen
to those stories a lot more and a
lot of those stories are out there.
But yeah,
we we can't get enough of those
from the LG BT,
Q Plus community or other
marginalized communities that have
been pushed down at history.
We all need to know our
history a little bit more.
So I I just want more stories
from everyone at every age.
So I think that like if you're feeling,
if you have a young writer
feeling overwhelmed by the
idea of writing a whole memoir,
like sometimes just scaling it down,
be like what you're writing is a
word at a time, or like what you're
writing is the next sentence.
Yeah yeah start start on a
smaller scale and then expand
out from there, yeah? I think
that's great advice.
Yeah, started seeing you never
know where you're gonna go.
Alright, well we've got a couple of
questions that came came in about your
audio book and we just wanted to know
what was a white recording it and why
did you decide to narrate it yourself
versus having a voice actor do it.
So I knew like immediately that
I wanted to do the audio book,
I made my agent put it in my contract.
I think the agreement was like
I would be considered an would
like get first pick or something,
but in the end like Simon and
Schuster is just like alright.
So when are you recording this like great
good because I have an acting background.
I have done some voice acting before
and so one is like is my story and I
feel like it needs to be in my voice.
But too I was like if I wanna do more
voice acting work in the future this is very.
Easy gig to get put on my TV.
The more slitherine voice thing,
I mean, that's the freelancer, hustler,
Millennial perspective of things.
That was part of why I wanted to do it,
but like yeah, I mean,
I do think it would be weird
not doing my own men more,
but I do know like not every
author is a public speaker.
I have listened to some authors read
their own book somewhere amazing my
friend Marco Shirou read his novel.
Anger is a gift and he did a phenomenal job.
But then there's other authors that
I will not name but that like I
listen to their audio books and.
Maybe you should have had a reader,
so hopefully I'm not in to some people.
Maybe it would be.
Uhm, I have had a lot of people
who like watch my videos who
lives in the audio book and their
feedback was just like that.
They really liked it 'cause it was
just like listening to a 6 hour video.
It was a lot of fun to do it.
I uhm,
Fortunately like didn't have a lot
of like dialogue where I needed
to do any voices or anything.
I know Ronan Farrow has been
criticized his recent book.
Some people, like me,
loved it, but otherwise pretty.
And there were it's funny
recording an audio book,
and I've heard this from other
authors who read their own books.
It is the best way to edit and I wish
we didn't come so late in the process.
Like usually you're not recording the audio
book until it's too late to edit anything,
but there's no better way to figure
out mistakes that you may have
been reading your book out loud.
And by the way,
you will have to report your book out
loud all the time for press engagements,
so like that is advice I would give.
I mean, certainly if you're writing
something shorter like like an
essay or blog post or something.
No better way to check that your sentence
is all makes sense then reading it out loud.
If you're able to.
When you bring the whole
book to read it out loud,
like go for it because it's not fun when
you're at a public event to be like,
oh, How do I say that?
Yeah,
what is the one that I did
was ammonium thioglycolate
Yeah yeah yeah they were there.
If you were like me and the
producers in the in the studio
we're having to like Google and
like listen to how they are not.
Yeah, there's there's challenges you
don't realize will come up until
you're recording your audio book.
Younger radios are interested
in writing poetry like third,
so many opportunities to read
poetry publicly, publicly,
and really supportive
communities in spaces.
And like that's it.
At the podium I have it printed out
and I'm like crossing things out.
Yeah, just like awkward sentences or phrases.
Even stuff that like maybe make sense when
you're writing and then we have to read it.
And it's like a five line run on your.
Maybe I should rephrase that?
Reading aloud is a good part of
the editing process is sound like?
Yes, definitely.
Well, it looks like we're just
about to the end of our time,
so I just wanted to ask if you
would just leave us with one
final thought about what do you?
What do you hope that readers
take away from your story and
also from your message today?
I mean the the thing I
always say about my book.
I said earlier. I want this to
be a starting point for people.
I'm I'm really grateful to have
gotten to share my story in this way,
but I hope it's just a taste.
In a first step or to people who are,
you know, trans or queer
themselves reading the book.
I hope they find a little bit of
resonance because even though we
are at that like we're at the
second trans tipping point now or
something according to out magazine,
there's still such a lack of representation.
and I think all of us have felt
that in the trans community.
Of wishing that we had had
more representation,
so I hope my book helps a little bit
with that and that other people receive
it graciously and learn a lot from it.
You go off and listen and learn from so
many other trans stories in the future,
but with regards to this webcast,
I mean,
I hope that you know you can see
that it's it's not.
It's not that hard to share.
Self deprecating I mean like if I can do it.
Anyone can share their story.
If I could really just the message
of how important it is to Share
your story because you know it,
your own story and also just like
in anything that you know when your
own bubble of the world like it can
be easy to forget that not everyone
else knows that like there's so many
pieces of you that might seem ordinary,
but to someone else they seem extraordinary.
And so try writing it and see
what it's like to share it,
because you might make a real difference in
someone else's life by sharing your own.
Beautiful I love it.
Thank you both so much yes.
Yeah, thank you all of you for watching.
Thank you again, thanks everybody.
Bye everyone, thank you bye.