Good afternoon and
Welcome to the ace said web and R
Channel. This is Kaylie Walstad,
vice president of client
engagement. An I am super excited
today. This is one of our most
favorite and most requested webinar
series after the expert you're
burning career questions. Thanks
everyone for joining us today and
of course. Today we have the always
fabulous Jerrod Kassaly, a CEO and
founder of true staffing partners.
It is a true honor to have Jerrod
share his over 15 years of. Wisdom
and experience representing our
fabulous community and talent in
cyber security E discovery and
privacy. Key has successfully
placed over 28128 hundred
professionals in full-time and
temporary positions at the Fortune
1000 AM lot 200 cyber 500 and
throughout the consultancy service
provider and software community
Jerrod is known. For his
Absolute. Theatrical presentations
that are amazing his Ted talks
delivering very pertinent pertinent
an informational information to our
community. True staffing year over
year has been awarded one of the
5:00 inks 5000 fastest growing
private companies in America. True
has been consistently voted one of
the top 3 best legal recruiters and
best legal and litigation support
agencies nationally and regionally
by the National Law Journal Journal
for over 5 years I could go on and
on. Jerrod also writes a monthly
series, which all of us today, says
are huge fans of. In
legaltechnewsoncybersecurityediscoveryanprivacycertificationsandyoucanfindthosearticlesandtheyreveryinterestingandfullofinformation@truestaffingpartners.com
welcome my
friend Jerrod
today.
Oh my goodness what a mouthful.
I am blushing and my staff is too.
Thank you for having me always my pleasure.
We love having you here.
And on the web and R as well is a
said's brilliance executive director
Mary Mack and she is dressed in black.
She is our fearless leader with over
2 decades of leadership and thought
leadership within the E Discovery Community.
She is well known for her relationship
and community building skills and
for the depth of our technical
and E Discovery Knowledge.
Mary is frequently sought out to share
her expertise via global conferences and
media for comment on industry issues.
Mary is the author of the very
first book on E discovery,
which is called the process of illumination.
The Practical Guide to electronic discovery,
which I myself purchased on
Amazon and Mary has sign.
It is a great book.
You can find it there and Mary was
also just honored being included
in women know cyber 100 fascinating
thi admit females fighting cyber
crime she is a personal mentor.
An friend to me and to many, many others.
Mary Welcome to your aces
web and R channel today.
Indeed,
I love having an intro, thanks,
Kelly thanks for being here.
This is our one of our favorite
formats and Kaylie and Jerrod I.
I wanna thank you for cooking it up.
But the SC expert format.
We've used it.
Another another contexts and it
really does drive level of engagement
matter-of-fact before this webinar.
I think we got over 10 questions from
people just in their in their registration.
So I'm very excited to see where we
will go this is a listener driven.
Web and are and we have a couple
of survey questions that will ask
you just to kind of prime the pump.
And Kaylie Wall said the inventor
of the E Discovery Rockstar that
you see on social media.
She said she's RVP of engagement
and she herself as many,
many years of ediscovery
hands on experience as well.
So we have got we've got quite a
quite a discussion to have for
you so should I read the 1st.
Full question while you start
reading the the questions that
have come in Kaylie Would that
be a good way to proceed here.
I
think that's great and people
can select multiple choice.
They don't have to just select one.
OK, so we're going to ask you
which certifications do hold
so privacy like your IAP PE.
Discovery tool based certifications.
Those would be your RCA XI Pro
Green Space Cloud nine law, etc.
Forensic certification so your end cases,
you're the Giac related GCF AZ 8.
Cyber certifications,
your CI SSP Certified Ethical
Hacker all of the rest of those.
Our certification itself of course,
the sense.
And any other search you might have
so you're PNP if we've got Microsoft
serves or AWS 3rd Google search.
Whatever else that you have so while
you're answering that you can answer
multiple multiple choice Kaylee?
What kind of questions did we get?
We have some fabulous questions and please.
I hope all of you on the web and R
today your questions are anonymous.
There are no dumb questions.
There is nothing that is Tempe after
my right sharing nothing off the table.
Nothing off the table.
Cool so we're gonna kick, it up.
We we have an excellent
question to kick this up and I am
going to push this to Jerrod 1st
is it a myth that only people who
bring in at least some business
make over 200,000 and E discovery?
What does the top of the market
really look like great question
oh that is a great
question I don't know if that's a myth,
but there are definitely people
in the Ediscovery Business,
who are making North of $200,000,
a year who are not responsible
for driving business. Yes.
I would maybe provide more
color to that by saying in the
consulting firm marketplace.
Once you start to be, it really.
I would say 150.
One 75, but definitely in that 200
three hundred range are probably
coming in at a senior director or
a managing director level at a
consulting firm whether it's big for
Big 12 or even he discovery service
providers that are starting to take
on infrastructure that feels like
a consulting firm at that level.
Yeah.
Individual contribution becomes part of
the expectation and I think in particular,
the ability for rapid growth in the
company comes from bringing on larger
clients with more opportunity to
involve more consultants and revenue.
So it's a skill set that I would
always encourage people to harness
and not be afraid of because it
can become an inevitability.
But there are people making North
of 200 and what is that ecosystem
look like so rarely rarely.
There's opportunities at law firms.
For E discovery managers most
of those roles are taken.
Sometimes there's attrition or
reorganization and somebody can
move into a roll like that.
And those rules can often command
salaries North of $200,000 a year,
the occasional in-house corporate
E discovery position,
sometimes practicing ediscovery.
Attorneys can command salaries that
are in that range sometimes higher,
sometimes a little bit less that's
not necessarily partner tract.
Attorney positions that can be
of counsel and special counsel
kinds of positions.
Sometimes it's associate level positions,
but not always.
But even that track is an associate
moving towards a partner.
You know they're hoping that you're
going to groom towards building
relationships in building revenue.
There are probably some other areas
in vendors in operational or client
service project management leadership,
particularly at larger organizations
where 200 plus is certainly in the
ballpark of leadership opportunities
manager Director Senior Director VP level.
That doesn't necessarily
involve individual contribution.
But they're rarer right there.
A lot rarer than where I would
say about 40% of the discovery job
market is which is in the middle.
If you were looking at me now you see me.
Holding a fake ball between my hands.
It's in the middle.
It's project managers senior analyst
sales professionals somewhere between.
Uh you know 80 and 150,000 and
based compensation.
That's where most of the jobs are
in terms of volume in the market.
Hopefully,
that's helpful in answering that question.
It is thank you Jerrod. Now I have to go to
our poll question answers.
What where did they go?
I went too fast.
This is interesting load of
certifications on the on
the line look at that. Wow
and I left, you a little
less than half have their sons.
Just to jump in I'll tell you what,
I when I look at this what I see that's
just interesting if nothing else,
and jumps out at me right away.
'cause I'm not surprised that
3/4 of the people on this call
have those kinds of sorts.
It's that no one has any privacy search
and I think the reason I find that
interesting is because we are now very
much in the cyber security privacy.
Discovery Staffing Worlds and I
think there's a real opportunity
for some E discovery professionals.
To not transition, but couple there,
he discovery career with privacy
and that transition might be an
easier one for many not everyone,
but for many, particularly some
lawyers where there's a real.
Moment of impact opportunity right now
where they need more people in those
jobs and there's not a lot of people
with those skill sets and E discovery
people have this a couple of great qualities.
I think that make them might make learning
privacy interesting to add to your stack.
One of which is you know
how to influence lawyers.
I mean,
many of us have been in the
space for decades,
or even less know that being able to
persuade attorneys is a huge component of
growth and success in making an impact,
helping them understand the nuance
of technology and privacy deals
with a lot of that leveraging that.
Skill and security people don't
always have that that same trait
that we find frequently in discrete
talent and so you know privacy can
sometimes be this intersection,
where I would encourage people to
go out and get the education first.
You need to know what it is
that you're dealing with,
but the other thing that's interesting
is companies are starting to build
privacy programs and it reminds me of
the way that law firms were building.
Let's support department's back in
the early 2000s and it's happening
right now in corporations and
slowly now we're seeing it happen.
Also at major law firms,
where there's building.
These groups who are really governance
groups that know how to collect a monitor
massage analyzed run analysis use Analytics.
Integrate technology and
then articulate what it is.
They're doing with it and what could be done.
That data and that it's compliant with
privacy regulations, particularly GDP.
RNC CPA. Ann.
There's real opportunity there.
Those are just being born right?
Where is list apartments in law firms
now any discovery or established
right there stablished in jobs there
are rarer than say on the vendor
side where there's a lot more jobs,
because a lot more work is going
out to them now than ever before.
But privacy is this new burgeoning
area and so I would encourage
people to explore it.
I think you'll find it just
interesting on a human level.
I certainly do it's great that
people have so many discovery.
Certifications more of you
should have your sides and then
moving into forensics and cyber.
I think these sorts are of a much more
technical nature and if that's where
you really want to head and you really
want to be a bit more heads down.
Not that there isn't that in privacy.
But I think in forensics and cyber.
There's a lot of back a lot of that.
Just my observation.
Mariani thought thank you for that Jerrod.
No, I I I think cyber and privacy are very,
very hot and it may be
that folks are just fine.
And deluged with job offers there,
so, so perhaps that's why they're
not on this particular web and R
but I think both I think your point
about an easier transition for folks
that are more legal than technical
would be privacy 1st and if your
forensic or more technical your
network administrator or an email
administrator or something like that.
You might want to take a look at the at
the cyber area to augment your sides so it's.
Easy discovery and I think we've got.
Great opportunity to expand our.
Our work life our authority or influence
by getting these adjacent. Certifications.
I'll also throw in there from a
hiring manager. Well, I just said,
just to complement what you just said Mary.
I'm just going to say what we see from
hiring managers when they explore
E discovery talent that sometimes
will also have responsibilities
in these other disciplines like
cyber and privacy or governance,
having your certifications in your area
of discipline that is your focus that is
your primary that is your Foundation,
which for many of you is going
to be discovery.
Gives the hiring managers more confidence.
That you'll succeed in getting
the certifications in these other
disciplines if you don't have them so.
You know, I can't emphasize enough
and it sounds a little bit like a
commercial 'cause you know here.
We are on a said is true.
Colin were saying get certified get
certified but it really is true when
we look at the metrics of the people
were placing the people with more
search get interviewed more often,
or get interviewed 1st and sometimes
get interviewed only that is absolutely
a reality because it tells them not
only do you have this knowledge base
but you committed to professionalizing
your expertise?
Through these various
established certifications,
and maybe even more so in some
of those tertiary disciplines to
not have any certifications,
and be asked for someone to invest
in you in a new area is a tall order.
Excellent. We have a lot
more questions coming in an I
think we have quite a few on the
salary range for example, jerrod?
What is the expected salary
range for an experience analytics
special specialist for example,
brain space in a law firm?
Well, that's a complicated question
'cause There's not just a range.
I think we should talk about brain space.
The 1st question.
I would ask you just to go off my last
point is whether you have brain space
analysts or you have brain space admin?
Are you being tasked with running the
infrastructure within your current
environment using brain space or you being
passed to wield it as a tool to work
with attorneys I think depending on that.
You're almost a different category
of professional and that will
command a different salary for a
million different reasons right,
I think brain space.
Admins are much rarer and you see
a lot less of them out there,
so if you're looking for that position.
It's probably going to be a little
more expensive than you might think,
to go out and acquire somebody with
that exact skill set and then add
geography into the equation and
it's an even more difficult one to
find exactly what you're looking
for brain space analyst.
We're seeing a lot more people
gain that certification.
I think it really depends.
I think what they're going to more look
at is the actual substantive experience.
Of what we would consider
an analytics specialist.
And how diverse your technology
portfolio is are you the kind of
specialist that's writing code.
And if so in what are you writing
python code or you?
Are you that hands-on technically
that will increase your value in
terms of compensation in law firms.
You know the spots can vary I
would say you would be hard,
pressed to hire somebody with that
experience where they worked on
really big matters that involve
terabytes of data millions of
documents and have demonstrable
experience where they can point to.
Hey, we started with this set.
We reduced cost by this amount.
They can tell a story of how they've
implemented on some big meaty stuff
probably somewhere in the 1:25 to 175 range.
Maybe more I think people have vendors are
probably making a little bit more than that,
like people that are running Analytics.
At groups or have small
teams underneath them,
and all they do is execute an Analytics.
There probably probably somewhere
in the 1:50 to 200.
That's what they're making now is my guess.
I think what people have to
consider when they hear these kinds
of ranges at least for me is.
You have to consider that you're
going to have to pay more to get
them to move right is what I think
people are making not necessarily
what they're being paid.
To leave.
Bass Jerrod marry quick question for you,
or or statement really a sub
just recently did a third party.
Hanover survey and some of the results
were studying maybe you want to talk
a little bit about the 64% of hiring
managers and what they thought.
And the pole itself,
so interesting interesting interesting
remind me of what the percentages are
and before I before I answer that I'm
going to go to our next poll question
so that you can put in what conference
is you are attending replying to
attend while I answer so we did.
We did a follow-up survey,
2 are basically our base?
Which is our sense community as well
as our greater esadze community
non certified but certainly.
Interested in.
In E Discovery,
an we found we found that 64% of
the hiring managers and Kaylie.
Help me if this is not the stature
looking for are more likely to
interview somebody with with the sed's.
And so we, we,
we took a look at some of the factors
that hiring managers in our community use.
The sides is one of 'em years of experience
is another vector that's very important.
So, your hard won experience is still very,
very important and.
Referrals so who knows?
Who knows your body of work and that's
also a very important hiring piece.
Did I get that Kaylee or
is there something else.
You were trying to trying to .2.
Not
the 64% of hiring managers were more
likely to interview an higher affect.
So that was fantastic and I think that
we're seeing a lot more jobs and Jerrod.
Uh a lot more positions that are
posted requiring certifications,
whether it be tool based knowledge
based wouldn't you say Jerrod?
It's categorically the first thing that they
do to delimit one resume from the next.
I mean, I I can say categorically an
my team will actually be presenting our
updated statistics from this at relativity.
Fest this year as part of their value
proposition session go see it and that would
be our best president is going to be running.
It's going to be awesome.
And we're going to be
presenting our 4th year,
3rd year of case findings for the relativity.
Certified admin in the marketplace and we
can tell you categorically that if I put.
4 resumes in front of a client and there,
specifically looking for somebody
with extremely good.
Relativity skills just as an example
and three of them have the RCA and one
doesn't those three 100% of the time are
getting interviewed in the 4th one isn't.
100%.
That's a great statistic and it actually
segues into the our next question.
But we should look at the poll results 1st.
Are you going to click Mary 'cause?
I'm afraid to?
I think we click
simultaneously we could do
what we did. The last time
so I'll do it. What conferences
have you attended or plan to attend?
Oh my goodness look at?
How many relative IANS.
We've got on this 90% going to
Relativity fest that is amazing.
But not surprised when we when we go.
It is our holy Discovery Community.
It is unbelievable. It's barn on my
favorite wouldn't you say Merry Angarrack?
It is definitely a defining moment yeah.
Get your rest before you go.
That's true and rest your voice.
We I'm usually have no voice at the end.
OK, so Jerrod I'm in a Segway
back as a senior project manager?
How much value. Add is it to go from.
RCA to a relativity certified expert.
Hum I guess it depends on what
you're becoming an expert in.
I think maybe I would redirect
that a little bit and say.
You know the 3:00 specialty
certifications in the relativity
ecosystem that that we see the
biggest demand for right now or
at least for the last 6 months
have been for the Analytics.
For the rail one for the processing.
And then after that,
it's kind of a toss up.
The RCA is separate but once we
get into the specialty search,
other than the admin.
Those are the ones that we see the
biggest demand for probably with Analytics.
Clearly, as a number 2 and then
processing in real one kind of
hovering so it depends you know,
I think that combining those 3 in
particular is a powerful skill set
but a lot of people focus on the
analytics and the assisted review and
the admin side may not even touching
the processing peace and that's OK, too.
It really just depends on where
you want to go if you're somebody.
That's back end person.
Then, having your infrastructure
certification becomes really valuable.
I've probably couple that with
an analytics search because.
A lot of the complicated analytics workflows.
I think involved consultation with
their infrastructure teams in some
capacity and there's some I think
opportunity to couple that and get your
expert level in terms of job search.
Do hiring managers value like
expert in Masters.
Absolutely just I couldn't say this
for expert but I can definitely
say it if you're a master 'cause.
I only think there's a hundred of
you out there if I put 3 resumes
in front of a client,
for a job where they like
master would be ideal.
There's one master and 2,
RCA's that Master is getting
the interview 1st and foremost
guaranteed no question.
Excellence is the question. It
does Mary so we go to our next. Cool.
Let's go what hiring methodology do
you currently use and Check all that?
Apply. So, your contract remove
temp to perm direct tire or nothing.
We can't get headcount approvals.
That'll be an interesting step.
And while people are are noodling over that
one what the next question, we've got.
I will pose this to you 1st
and then to Jerrod for comment.
Do you think that E discovery
vendors will still be around?
In 10 to 15 years given the current
stage of consolidation and price
pressures should those of us working
for them be developing plans to
move in house to affirm or to
transition into cyber IGA or privacy.
Quite the question
that is a great question when I first
started and he discovered 20 years ago.
I thought it would be a 5 year gig.
I really thought that Microsoft Oracle,
all the big players,
would automatically include E discovery with
their product sets and there'd be less.
Uh. Less opportunity for E discovery
vendors so I'm pushing 20 years now.
In this industry and you know,
I certainly can see another 5:00 to
10:00 and I can see more than that
because the data sources keep changing.
I do think if you're at a service provider
that only focuses on the Microsoft
documents and doesn't do all the ancillary.
You know the The Gmail's the
Lennox the Max the social media,
all the new kinds of collaboration.
Activities databases and things like that,
if they only focused on the Microsoft.
I'd say in 5 years.
You're probably out of luck and but
if you're with a service provider
that keeps on the cutting edge.
I think you'll be OK and it's a It's
important for all of us to keep on
learning keep on stretching and.
And keep on going but Jerrod What
is your thought?
Oh, I remember seeing this question
come in before. The the live event.
And I remember thinking,
I can't wait to address this
one because I really want to
redirect this person's thinking.
To be clear if you are not safer
at a law firm or a Corporation.
Then you would be at a
vendor in terms of Sillitti.
When we look at the market about
60% of the jobs or it vendors and
consulting firms or software companies.
So any discovery in a lot of ways,
there's a lot more jobs at.
Then there are at law firms and corporations.
I think we can say categorically there
are more jobs at service providers.
Consulting firms vendors whatever
nomenclature you want to use
then there are at law firms
and corporations combined.
I I think that.
Moving towards a commitment of
learning converging disciplines.
Is a really good?
Professional goal.
Because as jobs evolved and you're
looking for vertical mobility.
There's no question whether you're
staying exclusively with any discovery or?
Scoping out or scoping to include more
than having this knowledge and having
these vernaculars in different silos
of what is an industry of data is wise?
It is Wise. And I can only speak
from example right 'cause.
I like so many of you was very exclusive
to E discovery for very long time.
That's all this company did
and over the last 5 years.
We started adding cyber security and privacy
and that includes other things like info.
Coven legal apps and things that are
tertiary into our portfolio of what we do,
and who we represent and what we want
to be experts in as a business and
as you think about your karere it,
it won't do you damage it also?
The damage to go deeper into your core
area of expertise, but by no means do.
I think in any way,
and this is echoing Mary statement?
Is E discovery going away?
Are there going to be not enough jobs no
no it's just so much work any discovery.
It's so busy my team is laughing
on the other end of this line.
'cause they're like,
you guys.
There's plenty of opportunity
out there there absolutely is.
Excellent. Let us look at
the poll results and will go
back to questions marry I almost clicked it.
OK, 30%, Ganttown headcount approvals.
We need another weapon.
Aaron how to do a business case
to get headcount approvals.
They need to do.
That was like that was a good
answer by the way Jerrod Pudding
that in there. Yeah, well, we
still we see a lot of it,
which is interesting because it's kind of
the same percentage that using contract.
Steven Wright and and I wonder
if if some of them clicked.
Both of those, 2,
one of the reasons why a lot of
clients come to us for contracts,
having 3 discovery is
because for whatever reason,
the corporate entities have red tape that
won't allow full time permanent headcount.
But it will allow for contractors
and some of our contractor stay on
board with our clients for years.
For this reason.
When you start looking at
corporate E discovery positions.
This happens, all the time.
Sometimes it happens.
It vendors big small medium every size.
There is contract opportunity there.
And it's not just project related
it can be related to not being
able to get approval for head
count for whatever reason,
some publicly traded company is an
example might have within their ecosystem.
That means opportunity for those
that are willing to take a risk
and often a lot of those wind up
getting converted and becoming those
temp to perm hires think it's kind
of surprising about this is the
7.7% that are using remote staffing
because we found last year that more
than 127% more than one in four of
every placement that we made with
uh remote work from home higher.
There's a huge surge and acceptance
of virtual staffing last year
of big jump from 2014,
where I think it was only like 6 or 7%.
Of of placements that we were seeing made.
You know, I'm surprised to see that.
I was too and the direct
hires obviously that 53.8.
Are the biggest Ann?
The contract staffing.
I think is gone up in the last year
don't you marry from what we've seen
so I think. I think so.
I think So what are your
thoughts on this? I'm surprised
by the work from home too.
Yeah, I I I think that.
For my from my experience
there's more work from home.
I'm hearing more and more people doing that,
but that's not what we find on this call
so very interesting very interesting.
I'll flip to the next question
so that we can.
We can start answering that
while you read one of the
questions that have come in.
Fantastic
this is for Jerrod.
We have a lot of salary questions.
Each of our ask the expert is very,
very different and we love the
questions so keep them coming.
Is there a salary range around
a relativity master since
there are so few of them?
No, it depends on the job.
You know you could have we've had
represented people who have their
Masters that haven't really had
any practical application of the?
The things that they've learned
and studied to use kind of
getting certified kind of way.
And so they're looking for that opportunity.
And that command a very different
salary than somebody who's managed huge
cases and projects and has demonstrable
experience and also has their Masters
difference on the job if you're moving
client service or if you're moving
more in technology infrastructure?
What I can say is this we have
found demonstrably that in 2000 and.
I think was between 16 and 17.
Or maybe 17, yeah, 16 and 17.
That if you had your RCA that you
commanded about an 8.7% higher
compensation than the people who got
hired in the same jobs that didn't have it.
So we've done the math on that the
following year is a little bit lower.
It was only like 5 point,
something percent higher.
But that was also because there
were a lot less RCA that came into
the market and a lot of people move
that had RCA's in the prior year.
So I think it was actually more
a result of that.
I expect that we'll see when we come
out with the results at fest this year
that that number is closer to 8:00 to 10:00.
I think RCA's are getting paid more.
And if you're a master's
probably a little bit more.
We haven't done the math on that.
'Cause there's so few of you that I don't
know if this enough of a case study.
But certainly for RCA's you can say it is.
I'd have to look into it would be a
really interesting thing to examine
both for masters and experts are they
commanding slightly higher salaries than
pure RCA's or people with nothing at all.
I think that would be a great I think
that'd be a great research project.
It's a great question.
Ann Marie I'm gonna ask you a question
and then we'll go to poll results.
So what intersections do you see
between E discovery and records
management slash information governance?
Do records and information
management have a seat at the table
with the discovery or has the
certified records manager become
irrelevant in today's world of Esi.
This is a great question well
that's it. That is a good question.
I I certainly think that the certified
records manager is not irrelevant
and they certainly should have a
seat at the table if they don't you
discovery team is not complete the
certified records manager would.
Would have the retention schedule with
no with the retention practices were,
and I know that's the first that
certainly the first step in any E
discovery and if there's any data
disposition going on having them
having those certified records
manager involved so that they can.
I have a little bit of a circuit
breaker for things that are under
legal hold or preservation very,
very important now having said
that information governance.
In records management are kind
of similar and overlapping.
Professions with the information
governance and Jerrod I'll ask you my
sense is the information governance.
Um commands a higher salary and
a higher status.
And and so I I think if I were
in the records management area
and wanted to stay there.
I would go for my GP or an information
governance sert In addition to my CRM.
Jerrod what are your thoughts on that.
Yes. Believe that information governance is.
Agenus to a lot of different species.
One of which is records management
another which I think is privacy.
I think that information governance
is the language or the choice of
words that is getting the attention.
Of Stakeholders,
who have say in budget and have say in.
Investment in potentially
initially non revenue,
generating initiatives around
how a company handles their data.
I think records management as a vernacular.
Strikes a different chord with the board.
And you may not get the same attention
or investment if your branding
yourself exclusively that way.
And I think that's representative in
compensations that we see between IG
and records management professionals.
That makes sense. It does.
No. Yes, and I can hardly
wait how often do you check
your social media feed?
Yeah, I'm not pushing
it like. Infinite.
Wow, that's interesting.
I didn't ask that question 'cause I
assumed the answer would be LinkedIn.
Hum. So maybe that would be an
interesting follow-up question, too,
is like I kind of assume when people
won't work related information.
They're going to LinkedIn but whatever
platform might be a fun follow-up question.
Morning nothing your Q&A.
Are you going to Facebook?
Are you going to Instagram?
Are you going to my favorite LinkedIn?
Are you going to marry favorite Twitter?
What's your favorite?
Oh, I definitely am a LinkedIn.
I'm I'm in the hourly.
I clicked hourly Monet Hourly.
I mean, those of you know who communicated
with me if you send me a LinkedIn message.
You might get a faster response.
Sometimes then you might get
sending me an email potentially
I'm definitely on my feed and.
And making sure that you know,
my job in a lot of Ways and at
least I think my job in a lot of
ways to our constituents is.
To stay on top of information and know
about what's happening in our industry,
particularly as it relates to people
changing jobs before anyone else?
Does I pride myself on that.
So yeah, I'm definitely were watching.
You yeah, definitely we care,
we care enough about everyone to
try to watch as many of you and
understand what you're doing,
and keep up with you and celebrate you when
there's opportunity to do so on social media.
I think that's one of the best
things I like about social media.
The opportunity to celebrate others.
So yeah,
we're constantly looking for those
opportunities but that's also our job
and I know it's not everyone's job.
But I do think and part of the reason
why I think we ask this question
is participating in that world.
And Kaylie, you know you're so good at this,
it gives you presents.
You know, and it makes 'cause.
We talked about this in one of our
webinars during the full eclipse last year.
You know it makes the lead up on
social media and participating in
social media within your work.
Ecosystems. Makes those moments.
Where you meet someone in person at
the conference. So much more impactful.
There's a history, there,
you've seen the things they post
you seen the things they've liked.
When I look at everyone that
like something from our company.
I looked to see who likes it.
I'm interested to know who took
the time to read something we
posted and comment about it,
you know, I make time for that.
Which is probably why I'm checking
it every hour but you know
somebody's got to do but yeah?
I think it does participation in
that world makes those moments more
impactful an I think we talk about
wanting to make more money and do I
have to sell will start by developing
these best practices as part of your?
Professional development,
getting involved in making yourself
visible because you've heard me say
this before 90% of credibility.
Visibility. Whether you like it or not.
Well, in Pekin behind because we heard.
It's true and people find people on LinkedIn.
In particular, but Mary?
What is your favorite platforms?
Is it still Twitter hasn't changed
and how often do you social media?
Well, I well, I social media in
the morning and at night and
once in a while during the day.
My platform of choice is to be Twitter.
It has shifted to LinkedIn.
I basically get my news,
though from Twitter and I
engage more on LinkedIn.
That's perfect. And I am one
of those social media complete
nerves that looks at every alert.
My phone provides in real time,
I get a ton of Mets private
direct DM direct messages.
So I I have email, which I consider
LinkedIn email my regular email.
An eye on LinkedIn far more than
than Twitter, but I love them all.
They're both Twitter is wonderful for.
In getting engaged,
but LinkedIn is where the business
is done what you say Jerrod Mary?
Yep, Absolutely.
Alright I will move to
I'm going to look at the
Q&A and see if anybody put in.
Where they? Looks like LinkedIn.
I love love, LinkedIn so will
go to our. Next question.
How do US? How do US non lawyer
non jedis get past the stigma
that still exists when hiring
for certain ediscovery positions,
meaning there are still a lot of
job postings requesting. This.
A JD is it really necessary Jerrod.
I'll give you a very specific
answer to that question. Uh.
I don't think you should go get a JD to
get a better job in E discovery I think.
You should just.
Get a JD because you want to be a lawyer.
JD cost a lot of money and
takes up a lot of time.
So this notion that to get ahead and
E discovery. I need to have a JD.
I I discourage that line of thinking I
think I want really want to be a lawyer.
I want this knowledge base.
I want to be part of that.
You know life experience to
call myself an attorney.
I want to pass the bar.
Do it great.
You know. But.
There are plenty of jobs and plenty
of hiring managers out there that
don't care if you have a JD or not,
and there are plenty out there
that do it just may be that those
aren't the right employers for you.
Thanks Jerrod Mary any thoughts.
I agree with Jerrod get a JD
if you want to be an attorney.
I want to take the bar you
want to get a license.
The J to get a JD to do to do something else.
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
I think in the past,
it used to be almost like a liberal
arts degree graduate degree.
I think it.
It certainly the cost is very
prohibitive from a tuition standpoint
and then you're talking about 3 years.
Generally,
sometimes you can do it in 2,
but Yeah, I wouldn't
eat that that would be better
up looking like A. Yeah, you'd
be better up getting something in Analytics,
or or technology or.
I mean, those you know,
or business administration,
even you know, I mean,
there really there are a lot of
unique specialized Masters programs
where you know only 15 people.
Get this degree a year that are very
applicable to E discovery and how
to build business cases or how to
design enterprises or you know how
to unite all the things we're talking
about from a policy perspective
in it governance compliance etc.
I mean, there are all sorts
of you know advanced learning
continuing education up.
Besides becoming a lawyer.
Yeah, the other thing the other
possibility to as many law schools have
programs that will give you a Master
of Science in laws that's that's more
like a year program rather than a 3
year program so the expenses lesson.
You still get a good grounding in the
law and you get a nice alumni network.
Out of out of it.
But yeah, I would say make sure you
really want to do the law before
you go to law school for 3 years.
Excellent daily I think
we're on our left.
We're on our left pull question
about what you do on social media.
This will be near a dirtier hard
so if folks would answer that
while you're serving up are.
Some of the questions that have
come in from our listeners.
Absolutely so this is a great question,
and I will pose this to you and Jerrod.
What is a good general knowledge
certification to get on cyber security?
Uh I would say there's 2.
Two that I would recommend one is the CI SSP.
That's for people who have a little bit of
technical knowledge more so like Internet.
Stack encryption and things like
that in a little bit more technical,
it, sometimes described as a mile.
Mile wide and an inch deep
it's a fairly comprehensive.
Certification very,
very well respected and then there's
another one that's more like the laws
of security that the little little more
like the privacy asserts easier for
somebody who who doesn't necessarily
have a deep technical background,
the gene leg,
which is security search from the.
From the GX stack and Jerrod
you have some relation with.
With the Giac folks don't you?
Yeah,
yeah, we work with sands.
I'm not as intimately as
we do with ace heads.
But certainly a strategic partners
as part of our scholarship program.
An initiative of community evangelism about
the industry and encouragement of people
getting certified in their disciplines.
I think the G leg is good.
I think, though, for many of you,
I might look at the Harvard X diploma
program you can definitely read about it.
I wrote an article about a few months ago.
In legal technology news this is like
an 8 week program an MIT also has a
similar program and actually silence.
The software company also
has a similar program.
It's a real time online turning in homework.
Doing assignments have deadlines that week,
but it's like an 8.
The 12 week,
depending on which one of those you
explore program where you come out
with a diploma and it covers a lot of
broad leadership top down conversation
around security specifically security.
And you know that involves risk.
You understand.
How to talk to other cyber security
professionals?
That would be a good one to look into.
And you get a diploma
from Harvard that doesn't
suck. No talk
about alumni networks. Woo Hoo. Let's
look at the poll results.
I'm doing a drum roll.
OK, what interests you most on
social media work related feed check
only your top 2. Oh look at this.
Job interesting myself is the top one.
Kind of even.
Interesting.
I think that's great.
Yeah, conferences and community
sponsored events as well, 31%.
Yeah, this is this is great,
so people are looking for all
kinds of different information,
which if I think about my social media usage.
I'm looking at what a suds
partners are doing what?
What what's our community doing?
What articles are they sharing
because our goal merizan mine
on social media is to share?
What's new and exciting at ace adds shine.
The light on?
What our community is doing
and letting you know, Hey,
we're having this fabulous ask the
expert webinar today come on register.
So Jerrod what would you say are your top 2?
Definitely news.
And probably candidates looking
for worker jobs with that 'cause
That's what I do for living.
But yeah, no, I think linked into a great
way to stay on top of industry trends.
I would say a close third is
private comments and opinions of
my my peers definitely reading.
All of that looking at all of that
and and taking it in and you know,
maybe this is a good piece
of advice for everybody.
You know what do you say on LinkedIn
and how you handle? Conflict.
Unlinked and 'cause often people
post things that kind of insight.
Strong opinions. Um.
You know, people are reading that it
definitely is something that I think about.
There are occasions.
When someone on my team
will bring me a tendon.
I'll say you know,
I read with this person said about
you know the the recent change of
CEO leadership over it relativity.
It was really insightful is really
thoughtful it was really articulate
actually and I see that they are
also posting other things that
are about the industry that I
actually found valuable and now you
become a much more interesting.
Person for me to want to work
with and represent and evangelize
from my clients because.
You've immediately made yourself
more kredible immediately.
And more approachable and more available
and approach ability in availability.
I mean,
these are things that people
look for when they hire you
discovered professionals for sure.
Jerrod will research
that that is a fabulous point.
Think before you click post because not
only will people see it on a feed but your
activity shows up right on your profile.
No, it staves and it's easy to research.
And we like to say the water is warm our
community is so supportive on social media
platforms wouldn't you both agree marry.
Oh yeah, yeah,
very forgiving of errors and.
And just warm and welcoming
where in other communities.
Sometimes there's a little
more sharp elbows and.
It's not as welcoming I think our
our community is fantastic and one
of the things just in case you can't
make it to a conference find out
what a conference hashtag is and
you can follow on social media and
you can actually contribute to the
conversation about a conference where
you're not even physically there.
It's a way to extend your
presence even further.
But I think I think are using
social media is is absolutely
key to the advancement of our
sense community are greater.
Esadze community and the
legal community as a whole.
I think we need to demystify a lot.
And what a better place to do it,
then on social media.
Well let me add one more thing
to that and this will also
sound like a shameless plug.
But it's actually becoming
whether we like it or not true.
We have to follow each other right.
I think something that you know,
we kind of all sneeze at is
you know how many followers.
How many followers,
but we're living in a society
where influencer is a job and
you have to follow the people
on social media who you support
the way that influence part of
being part of the community now.
I'm going to get a little like
Black Mirror on everybody about it,
but there's some truth to it.
And so you know when you're online
with people and you respect
what they're saying or doing.
Follow them right.
Follow tons of people not just
the people who I'm connected to
follow all sorts of people that.
I'm interested in what they have to say,
and share and show and want them to
know that by following them and.
You know for what it's worth.
I think I'd be interested in people
disagree but I think you know,
we look at our feet and this is why
we're interested in how often you're
participating in looking at that
feed you were looking at these feeds
is very disposable now right there.
What you look at in real time is
kind of what most thing I don't
think a lot of people are going
back and looking at weeks or days or
historical information unless they've
got a really good reason to but that
reading of the feed and just being
able to like take a scoop of Gelato and.
Keep walking and get your daily
dose of what's happening in
your world and who's out there,
making noise is is a healthy practice.
Or, who's out there, earning their sins.
That's right. Absolutely true.
He said the discovery rock stars
or a lot of people are also posting
I just got my RCA or I mean,
there's a lot of messaging and if
you want to share and be kind of an
expert you should look at like a Rob.
Robinson puts out just some fabulous content
that you could share with your network,
but I hope that Jerrod Marian.
I alsi LinkedIn request.
From those of you who are not connected
to us we would love to link in with
you and Jerrod made a huge point.
It really does make meeting those
virtual people so I may not have
met you in person or Jerry Door
Mary but connecting on LinkedIn.
I see your face make sure you have
your picture, a good picture.
And I see your name and what you do
and then if I see what relativity fast.
I feel like I have a leg up.
I already know you?
So it's very powerful.
And I will give Jerrod and
married the last words.
To close it up,
we're at the top of the hour.
After you Jerry.
I always appreciate
everybody is possible now.
Some questions and for
listening participating.
Thank you so much for having me and yeah,
hopefully to see you in the
ether and more thank you.
Yeah, and I will miss matter injured
Jerrod Jerrod had spend sharing.
Is hard one experiences statistics
on hiring regionally for various
disciplines with various degrees?
Various years of experience not many
people share that that level of detail.
We are very, very grateful jury that you
that you not only share your numbers,
but you share the qualitative part of
moving careers and moving from place to
place were very, very grateful to you.
Jerrod thank you.
Kaylee for hosting such a wonderful
ask the expert and back to you.
Thank you. Everyone I look forward
to meeting some of you on LinkedIn.
I have requests coming in because my phone
notifies me as I said, so thank you.
Have a great day and look for us.
Another 3 months for ask
the expert deja were out.